Talk:County Armagh

=Local Government details are out of date

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I propose an edit update to state the following in local government section. County Armagh ceased to serve as a local government unit in 1973 and the county was divided into four district councils for local government purposes, namely Armagh City and District Council, most of Craigavon Borough Council, approximately the western third of Newry and Mourne District Council and a part of Dungannon and South Tyrone Borough Council, centred around Peatlands Park. These councils in turn were disbanded in a streamlining of local government in April 2015 with Armagh being placed into three new districts of Armagh, Banbridge & Craigavon, Mid Ulster and Newry, Mourne & Down. Armagh is one of the four counties of Northern Ireland presently to have a majority of the population from a Catholic background, according to the 2011 census. Captainbeecher (talk) 20:30, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

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Before we start a revert war lets; 1) discuss it and how disagreements can be resolved, 2) "the Troubles" are more complicated than simply the presence of "the British" and theirfore we should refain from implying that this is the only reason for a military presence, and 3) their is more to the county than simply a military presence and theirfore we should seek balance. Djegan 22:13, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

By the way my edit summary, for the article, should of been "move towards npov". Djegan 22:19, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

County crest in irish? Any crest should have the words in English primarily. 86.131.202.57 23:05, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

It should be in English but lets not go there, more importantly I'm not entirely sure this is actually the county crest. The City & District council use a different one & a google search brings up similar but different versions. I think the actual, or perhaps historical, county crest is a harp on a plain backround as seem on Bank of Ireland sterling bank notes.

Well i know its not the county crest, its the crest of the county GAA board. Any county crest that you would find for any of the counties in NI are going to be historical crest, being that currrently non of the counties in NI have a political status/structure , ulink their counterparts in the Republic, to take a crest from. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 06:50, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

The crest is in English, not Gaelic. The alternative would be delusional. Woodstockrocker 10:20, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

How exactly would this be delusional? This county is after all in Northern Ireland, not in Northern England. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.165.195.244 (talk) 20:32, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

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Does anyone know what the old County Arms was / still is for lieutenancy purposes? e.g. that with the Harp (i.e. http://www.triskelle.eu/tourism/todoarmagh.php) or that with blue background (i.e. ). I'm not sure that the latter is necessarily that of the GAA Armgah County Board given that they use a different one (). I'd like to redo the article and would like to get the Coat of Arms up given that Tyrone, etc, have one. Thanks (User:Deathpool4}

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:03, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Northern Ireland county maps

There is a discussion ongoing about the locator maps for Northern Ireland counties — see here.
~Asarlaí 19:47, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Population of County Armagh in the 2011 UK Census

Whilst one must be cautious when one speaks about population figures for any of Northern Ireland's counties (because data are no longer collected on a county basis), a relatively reliable estimate can be made using the figures and maps provided by the Ordnance Survey and the figures from the 2011 Census freely available from NISRA.gov.uk. As an overview, many Local Government Areas' boundaries (drawn up in the 1970s) fall into line with the old county structure (eg. Armagh City & District Council area lies entirely within the bounds of County Armagh). Where this is not the case, Electoral Wards prove an invaluable agent to plug the gaps (eg. Craigavon Borough Council is mostly in County Armagh, but some parts of the eastern and southeastern rural hinterland are in County Down; Donaghcloney is one such electoral ward - Donaghcloney is in Co. Down but is administered as part of Craigavon Borough Council area). Sometimes the electoral ward boundaries were drawn (or in other cases redrawn) in such a way that they are split by counties. In this instance one can use the Census Output Areas (or their new 2011 equivalent: the Small Area which are almost always synonomous with one another) to break up the Electoral Ward into its constituent parts (eg. the Small Area N00002882 (previously known as Census Output Area 95OO170004) is in County Armagh, but also forms part of Killyman Electoral Ward, which is part of Dungannon and South Tyrone District Council area - most of the Killyman Electoral Ward are in County Tyrone). On the rare occassion that the borders of the Small Area/Census Output Area are not in line with the old County boundaries, I have either chosen or excluded any given area depending on where most of the Small Area lies and where most of the population of that given area live (eg. Small Area N00002331 (formerly the old Census Output Area 95LL190007) is split between Counties Armagh and Down, but one can see on NISRA maps that well over 2/3 of the land and roughly the same fraction (if not more) of the population reside on the County Armagh side of the old county boundary - the rest ofMagheralin Electoral Ward is in County Down). Thus insofar as possible I have only included those statistical areas that lie within the County Boundaries in order to arrive at the figure of 174,792. I must stress that this is only an approximate figure as certain Small Areas have been included in the 174,792 figure which have small amounts of territory outside of the county, and some Small Areas which have portions of themselves within County Armagh have been excluded because most of the Small Area lies in another County. In all, these factors may well even each other out. Nonetheless, the actual figure could be out by a hundred or so. If anyone has any queries or suggestions please get in contact. Cuirfear fáilte roimh chomhfhreagras i nGaeilge. Correspondance in Irish is welcomed.

• County Armagh:
• Armagh 59340
• Craigavon 93023 (except the County Antrim and Down portions thereof)
  • Aghagallon -4931 (in County Antrim or Down except for)
    • N00002175 (formerly 95LL010005) 742
    • N00002176 (formerly 95LL010006) 570
  • Bleary (in County Armagh, except for)
    • N00002206 (formerly 95LL050001) -325
    • N00002204 (formerly 95LL050005) -431
    • N00002207 (formerly 95LL050006) -299
    • N00002208 (formerly 95LL050007) -334
    • N00002209 (formerly 95LL050008) -361
    • N00002210 (formerly 95LL050009) -417
  • Donaghcloney -3989
  • Magheralin -5148
    • Except N00002331 (formerly 95LL190007) 606
  • Waringstown -4536
• Dungannon: only
  • Killyman
    • N00002880 (formerly 95OO170002) 438
    • N00002882 (formerly 95OO170004) 375
  • Moy
    • N00002892 (formerly 95OO190003) 500

Newry 99480 (39979)

• Newry and Mourne 99480 (except the County Down portion thereof)
  • Annalong -3211
  • Ballybot (in County Armagh, except for)
    • N00003678 (formerly 95VV020003) -378
    • N00003679 (formerly 95VV020004) -327
    • N00003681 (formerly 95VV020006) -409
    • N00003682 (formerly 95VV020007) -226
  • Binnian -2752
  • Burren and Kilbroney -4506
  • Clonallen -4393
  • Daisy Hill (in County Armagh, except for)
    • N00003738 (formerly 95VV100002) -292
    • N00003741 (formerly 95VV100008) -244
    • N00003742 (formerly 95VV100009) -316
  • Derryleckagh -4458
  • Donaghmore -3473
  • Drumalane (in County Armagh, except for)
    • N00003772 (formerly 95VV140002) -186
    • N00003773 (formerly 95VV140003) -323
    • N00003769 (formerly 95VV140006) -351
  • Drumgullion (in County Armagh, except for)
    • N00003776 (formerly 95VV150003) -384
    • N00003778 (formerly 95VV150005) -391
    • N00003779 (formerly 95VV150006) -355
  • Kilkeel Central -3687
  • Kilkeel South -2983
  • Lisnacree -2990
  • Mayobridge -4037
  • Rostrevor -2893
  • Seaview -3067
  • Spelga -3583
  • St. Mary’s -2284
  • St. Patrick’s -3530
  • Tullyhappy (in County Armagh, except for)
    • N00003880 (formerly 95VV290007) -469
  • Windsor Hill -3003

TOTAL: 174792 D.de.loinsigh (talk) 18:15, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

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South Armagh?

Re these edits - should such articles refer to "South Armagh"? If so, where should the link point? If not, how else should the term be conveyed?

"South Armagh" is a widely used term. It is used in English news reporting, usually in conjunction with the term "bandit country". It is the basis of constituencies for both Stormont and Westminster. Yet, before the republican chorus starts, it's also the name of an IRA brigade. So this is a term used by both sides. So why is WP seemingly against it?

@Mabuska: Andy Dingley (talk) 15:30, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

I'm not against it as it is the name of an area just like South Londonderry or North Antrim, however it is wrong and factually incorrect to Wikilink South Armagh to Armagh, which is about the city not the county, and a city not even in the south of the county! Unless we have an article about South Armagh, all we can do is link to the county and state southern or south before the link. However fear not I have just discovered a disambiguation page called South Armagh, which states its uses (excluding IRA brigade) so I'd suggest linking to that. Mabuska ^(talk) 19:32, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

But we should avoid linking directly to a disambig page, as that will only sprout a {{dn}} tag and someone else has to come along and fix it.

I'd favour linking to the county article, but is there a usable section target within that? And should that then become a redirect, with South Armagh (disambiguation) for the disambig page? Andy Dingley (talk) 21:35, 3 July 2017 (UTC)

It doesn't always. I'd wait and see on that one. Mabuska ^(talk) 00:15, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Coat of arms

Several users, most recently Jacobfrid, have attempted to add the arms of Armagh City to this article. This is erroneous. The city and county are separate entities; one is armigerous and the other is not. Jacob argues that since the Armorial of Ireland page uses the city's arms as a "stand-in" for the county's, we should do likewise. However, it's hardly appropriate to perpetuate an inaccuracy on the basis that the inaccuracy already exists elsewhere. Zacwill (talk) 13:23, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

According to the source on Armorial of Ireland it has been previously used to represent the county on Northern Irish banknotes, and any search for "County Armagh Coat of Arms" online will return that shield, or the simplified version. It therefore holds some degree of common recognition as a representation of the county despite not being an officially issued arms. Seeing as County Armagh doesn't exist as an administrative entity anymore I don't see it getting an officially issued COA anytime soon. I'd love to see others opinions on this but I think a recognisable COA that has been previously used (albeit again, not in an official capacity) is preferable to having nothing until, presumably, the end of time. --Jacobfrid (talk) 20:41, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

The traditional symbol of Armagh is a harp, and this often does double duty as a county symbol (on Bank of Ireland notes, for example). However, the arms currently displayed in the article were specifically granted to the City of Armagh in 1958. Only those who don't know any better use them as a "County Armagh coat of arms". It's a shame that Co. Armagh never received a proper CoA like the other Irish counties, but that doesn't mean we should purloin or invent one for the sake of completion.

As an aside, File:Armagh coat of arms.png is a pretty poor rendition of Armagh's arms. It's clearly been cobbled together from odds and ends found on Wikimedia Commons, and the crown in the crest looks nothing like the one in the official version (likely because the creator couldn't find an asset that resembled it). Zacwill (talk) 23:34, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

If that's the COA used on banknotes that the source in armorial of Ireland is referring to then I see the issue. The city arms bears almost no resemblance to it. I was under the impression that the text in the armorial article was referring to the present COA, but seeing as that rendition was only made in 2019 I suspect whatever used to be there was actually swapped out with the current one. As per the banknote you linked, and examples 1 and 2, the county symbol is clearly just a harp.

I have removed the city COA as it's clearly not the same as the symbol used to represent the county. Jacobfrid (talk) 10:24, 17 August 2022 (UTC)