Talk:Coventry Building Society Arena

Why stadium not owned by the football club?

The article history section starts by talking about the desire of Coventry City FC to build a new stadium, but as well all know, they aren't the owners. The history section doesn't reference the decision making process that led to the club being tenants in a part-council owned stadium. Grunners (talk) 14:40, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Cashless stadium that takes cash

Which is it? Hack (talk) 13:19, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Wasps purchase of the stadium

Please note that the council vote approving the sale does not mean that it will automatically happen or that the sale has happened. Please wait for the specific announcement that the sale is legally completed. The fact that one of the owners is a democratic body and needs to vote approval for the process does not mean it is a completed transfer, as all sorts of things can go wrong. Until you have a specific source for the transfer of ownership it has not happened. Britmax (talk) 08:44, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Major Changes

Added Sub-Headings in History to help divide it up with Inaugural events all being added into this section. Added a list of facilities at the Ricoh Arena, changed "Location" to "accessibility", adding information on Transport. I have also fitted the highest attendances in the attendance section but only included Sporting Events, references are need though. I did not include the one concert before as other concerts have had high attendances, some of which are higher, and had not been included. CovCity97 (talk) 22:58, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

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Requested move 5 May 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Consider re-requesting after circumstances have changed. (closed by non-admin page mover) ~ Aseleste (t, e | c, l) 02:56, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

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Ricoh Arena → City of Coventry Stadium – As per WP:COMMON NAME. Ricoh deal is due to expire and stadium will become Coventry Building Society Arena on 1 July 2021; changing to City of Coventry Stadium reduces need for any further moves in future. Steven a91 (talk) 17:01, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

• Note that it remains Ricoh until 1 July. Keith D (talk) 18:49, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose Sources in the article confirm that the name Coventry Building Society Arena will be used after the Ricoh deal expires this summer. 162 etc. (talk) 19:31, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
• Keith D good point for clarification. 162 etc. So you’re suggesting we change it to Coventry Building Society Arena on 1 July 2021 and then potentially change it again in 10 years? Steven a91 (talk) 20:58, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

  I was just pointing out that the change will take place on 1 July, so probably we should not do anything until then. The City of Coventry Arena was only used for the 2012 Olympics and not outside that event. May be should see what is the common name nearer the time of change. Keith D (talk) 21:36, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

  The article title should reflect the common name. Once the stadium is renamed, there is a strong chance that the common name will follow suit. If another sponsorship happens 10 years down the road, perhaps a title change will need to be considered then as well. We can't predict future events, see WP:CRYSTALBALL. As of today, I don't believe renaming the article is appropriate. 162 etc. (talk) 21:13, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

• Keep as is for now, then when it changes we go with what reliable sources say per the rules at WP:NAMECHANGES. I wouldn't favour "City of Coventry Stadium" myself, that was a temporary name brought in for the 2012 Olympics and is in no sense the correct longterm name.  — Amakuru (talk) 21:04, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 11:01, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose per Amarkuru, this is the name for now and when it expires we will have a better idea of the new name, so wait until then. And for the avoidance of doubt @Keith D and 162 etc.: we do not use sponsored names for football stadiums where a non-sponsored alternative exists. GiantSnowman 11:04, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
• @GiantSnowman: you oppose but then confirm that sponsor names are not used where a non-sponsor alternative exists is this not contradictory? Steven a91 (talk) 08:33, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

  Not at all - given there is, as far as I am aware, no non-sponsored name confirmed? GiantSnowman 08:49, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

  Giant Snowman The only non-sponsored name ever given was City of Coventry Stadium but I guess as this was only ever a temporary name I guess it was never a confirmed name Steven a91 (talk) 11:46, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

  Exactly! So let's wait and see what happens in the summer... GiantSnowman 11:47, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

• As an alternative what about Coventry Arena or Arena Coventry this would fit with both name of operating company and with adjacent railway station? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steven a91 (talk • contribs)

  You can't just make up a name. The title has to be the common name used in reliable sources. 162 etc. (talk) 19:32, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

  Arena Coventry is a name used for the operating company and the original owners and is also a name used during planning so would be appropriate. Steven a91 (talk) 21:33, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose. Still the overwhelmingly common name. I've lived in the Coventry area for twenty years and that's what everyone calls it and probably will continue to call it. -- Necrothesp (talk) 08:57, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose until 1 July when it changes name. Then that's a separate discussion on COMMONNAME which I am neutral on. The City of Coventry Stadium was never an official name, it was just a name used at the Olympics because they don't allow brand names. It's just like the Emirates Stadium is called "Arsenal Stadium" in UEFA competitions for the same reasons but the article uses the sponsored name because the ground never had a non-sponsored name in its history. That principle applies here I'd say. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 06:01, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 23 June 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Elli (talk | contribs) 20:57, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

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Ricoh Arena → Coventry Building Society Arena – Stadium name is changing from 1 July. Requesting now to give 7 clear days of discussion ahead of potential move on 1 July. Steven a91 (talk) 10:22, 23 June 2021 (UTC)—Relisting. Primefac (talk) 12:26, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

• Comment This well-intentioned RM is too soon. We can't discuss the merits of a name change that hasn't happened yet. See WP:CRYSTALBALL. @Steven a91: recommend you withdraw and resubmit once the name change is done. 162 etc. (talk) 14:41, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
• Might as well get on with it' Go ahead. In ictu oculi (talk) 15:09, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 11:41, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose - we do not use sponsored names for football stadiums, so it should be moved to the established non-sponsored name of City of Coventry Stadium instead. GiantSnowman 11:44, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

@GiantSnowman: I agree with you but when I opened a move request to that very title in preparation for this change of name it got unanimously opposed and rejected. You yourself even opposed it Steven a91 (talk) 13:58, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Comment The City of Coventry is not really an established name it was just used for the 2012 Olympics it is not used generally so cannot be classed as a common name. Keith D (talk) 13:25, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose. As someone who lives near Coventry, I suspect this will remain the common name for some time to come. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:15, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
• Wait With this only just changing, let's see what common usage looks like in reliable sourcing in a few months -- assuming it's became the commonly used name, I'll certainly support.--Yaksar (let's chat) 02:51, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. Good faith nomination I am sure, and I'm most impressed by the advance notice. But completely contrary to policy, particularly WP:AT of course and also WP:BALL. Premature at best, and (not surprisingly) unsupported by usage in secondary sources. (And note that news items etc that just repeat a press release announcing the renaming are primary sources and not of any great interest according to WP:AT.) Andrewa (talk) 15:45, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 30 July 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. moved to Coventry Building Society Arena (closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 (talk) 21:04, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

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Ricoh Arena → City of Coventry Stadium – At the risk of flogging a dead horse given that renaming has been discussed twice before, but not come up with a unanimous consensus, the article is currently renamed Ricoh Arena in recognition of a now expired naming rights sponsorship. Article should either be renamed Coventry Building Society Arena to reflect the current naming rights sponsor, or the more generic City of Coventry Stadium much like City of Manchester Stadium is rather than Etihad Stadium. The latter would avoid the need to rename every time the naming rights sponsor changes as has happened at University of Bolton Stadium. Either way having it named after a departed sponsor makes no sense. There was a suggestion in the last discussion that it was crystal balling, it has now been confirmed that the change has happened. Likewise the website domain has been renamed. I'm sure people will continue for a while to refer to it as the Ricoh, much like people still refer to the train operator at Coventry station as Virgin Trains, even though Avanti West Coast took over 18 months ago. But the media and other published works will generally refer to it by its correct name.

For mine Coventry Building Society Arena, not opposed to City of Coventry Stadium. Short334 (talk) 06:31, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

• Support move. The circumstances have changed since the last RM. O.N.R. ^(talk) 08:28, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

• User:O.N.R. to clarify, do you support the name proposed in the last RM, the current one, or both? The circumstances changing seem to be that the new name is now widely used, although City of Coventry Stadium still does not seem to be used commonly at all. Hoping to see if there is a consensus here, because the majority of !voters, including the nomination, seem to express that the Coventry Building Society Arena name is preferred given current usage in sourcing.--Yaksar (let's chat) 17:53, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

• Support per my original rationale when moving the page to Coventry Building Society Arena (my rationale is still correct despite the reverting by a person unfamiliar with the subject). My only concern with moving to City of Coventry Stadium is the lack of sources using this as an official non-sponsorship base name, but since this was it's "Olympics name" then I guess it's as close as we're likely to get to one. c87d98b10 12:22, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
• Move to Coventry Building Society Arena. No reliable sources have been cited to support the name "City of Coventry Stadium". 162 etc. (talk) 15:03, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 09:25, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

• Support move to City of Coventry Stadium - it is well established that we use the non-sponsored name of a football stadium wherever one exists. GiantSnowman 09:29, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Per WP:COMMONNAME: "(Wikipedia) generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources)." No policy suggests that a non-sponsored name is automatically preferred. 162 etc. (talk) 15:53, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Consensus at previous RMs shows that actully. GiantSnowman 14:29, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

• Support a move but not necessarily that specific title. I appreciate City of Coventry Stadium was only an Olympic name but as has been stated is the closest we’ve ever had to an official name. Strangely enough when I requested that specific name it was unanimously opposed. Steven a91 (talk) 15:40, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
• Move to Coventry Building Society Arena, since it appears that is now the common name, and strong oppose "City of Coventry Stadium". That is not its official name, but was purely a temporary label to avoid sponsors for the purpose of the Olympics. The "don't use sponsored names" is only a rule of thumb in the FOOTY WikiProject, and it certainly doesn't trump WP:COMMONNAME or the other article title criteria.  — Amakuru (talk) 17:45, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
• Support move to Coventry Building Society Arena - It has been announced on many news outlets that this will be the new name, and therefore make it easier for those giving it a simple search on here. --TheVaughano (talk) 11:11, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
• Comment on COMMONNAME with football stadiums - that is not the convention. That is why we have an article on Boleyn Ground, not 'Upton Park' etc. We use WP:OFFICIALNAME, which does not include the sponsored name. GiantSnowman 14:39, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

• The guideline you link to does not say anywhere that we should not use a common AND official name just because it is a sponsor. Could you point us to the one you mean?--Yaksar (let's chat) 02:34, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
• As for your example of Boleyn Ground, the close was based on an interpretation of WP:NATURAL: Using an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English reliable sources, albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title. Do not, however, use obscure or made-up names. This is specifically because Upton Park, the more common name, is ambiguous. This argument does not apply when a move is to an unambiguous title, such as Coventry Building Society Arena. 162 etc. (talk) 16:28, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

  Personally I think Boleyn Ground is the wrong name for that article, but that's a red herring. The key point is that GiantSnowman's claim that COMMONNAME doesn't apply to stadia is just incorrect. COMMONNAME is a sitewide policy, and its provisions are also backed up by WP:OFFICIALNAME, the gist of which is to say don't use the official name, unless it's also the common name.  — Amakuru (talk) 16:19, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

• Move to Coventry Building Society Arena There seem to be numerous claims that our common name policy somehow does not apply to football stadium, but without any policy to back it up. Does it suck that sponsored names generally become both the common and official names. Yeah, kind of! But we aren't here to right that wrong, and there is no policy-based argument why we would not use a common and official name used in reliable sources just because it is.a sponsored one.--Yaksar (let's chat) 02:34, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

• I was a "wait"!vote in the last discussion, but it's pretty clear that reliable sources are using the new name.--Yaksar (let's chat) 02:37, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

• Move to Coventry Building Society Arena. "Coventry Building Society Arena" appears to be the most common name for the stadium now. It certainly is among the media within Coventry. I can perhaps understand being cautious and retaining the name "RICOH Arena" for the short term. But the name "City of Coventry Stadium" is a red herring. It has never been commonly used by supporters, the football club, the media or anyone for that matter. It is also inaccurate to compare it to to the City of Manchester Stadium. CoMS was called that for a decade before it became known as the Etihad Stadium whereas the name "City of Coventry Stadium" was just a technicality. james_mc (talk) 13:10, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Wait a few months and see if the common name, which is probably still "The Ricoh", or "The Ricoh Arena", is influenced by the new official name. -- DeFacto (talk). 10:24, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

• The current name seems to have already replaced the older one as the commonly used one in a majority of coverage. Over the past month, there seem to have been a ton using the current name, some that note the old name while referring to the new name, and a very small number that are only using the old name. If usage was the other way around, or if there was an actual debate about which is the current name and which is the old, it would be one thing, but it seems both unrealistic and WP:CRYSTALBALL to somehow expect that this will change, and reliable sources like the BBC will suddenly change their minds and go back to using the old name after already switching to the new one. --Yaksar (let's chat) 17:26, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Agree with Yaksar, the COMMONNAME is now Coventry Building Society Arena, this is also the official name. Moving to CBSA or CoCS is surely the only debate here now as keeping the article at Ricoh Arena when it's not the official name nor the common name would be the worst possible option. c87d98b10 18:41, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

• A point to note for the 2022 Commonwealth Games; where sponsorship titles are also forbidden, stadium is simply referred to as Coventry Stadium so not sure City of Coventry Stadium should be considered the official name. Steven a91 (talk)

• Helpful to note, although we don't base on Commonwealth Games policy, but rather Wikipedia's naming guidelines, which suggest we use the name commonly used in reliable English-language sources (whether sponsored, official, informal, or otherwise). In this case3, the new name is the one.--Yaksar (let's chat) 17:55, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.