Talk:Cracker (term)

Slur?

Should the article say that Cracker is a slur? The CNN source does call it a slur. X-Editor (talk) 21:30, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Maybe? It is typically a pejorative, although not as universally or intensely as most others. A better lead sentence might be: a racial epithet, often perjorative, directed towards white people. MasterTriangle12 (talk) 05:38, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

I'd be all in favor of mentioning that it is used pejoratively with something like what MasterTriangle12 proposed, since that seems perfectly in line with the RS. Reading the RFC another user mentioned below, I don't believe adding that would contradict the conclusion that RFC came to, since we'd still be using the term "racial epithet" - not that there would be any need to hold to an old RFC if the consensus has changed. That said, I'd agree with the consensus reached by those participating in that RFC, namely that we should use "racial epithet" and not some other term. Joe (talk) 06:55, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

X-Editor, there was already an RFC to determine how to define the word in the lead.  Bait30  ^{Talk 2 me pls?} 06:32, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

That RFC was fairly diverse in it's response, but only two of eight responses did not mention either 'insult' or 'slur', but to avoid implication upon it's neutral usage maybe it should not be in the first sentence and should accompany the description of it's neutral usage in the second sentence: MasterTriangle12 (talk) unsigned on 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Although it can be a pejorative it is sometimes used in a neutral context, particularly in reference to a native of Florida or Georgia (see Florida cracker and Georgia cracker).

MasterTriangle12, you neglected to sign your post (you silly-dilly). Also, I like your first suggestion better than the second suggestion, but either one would be fine with me. Joe (talk) 20:26, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

I've just boldly added MasterTriangle12's first suggestion (it's RS-accurate and it doesn't go against the RCF). If someone wants to change/revert it for some reason, please feel free, I'm not married to it. Joe (talk) 20:37, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Cheers Joe, I think I prefer the second variant as not to impugn neutral usage of the term in the first sentence, but I'm happy for it to stay with the first unless more opinions arise. Also, I find putting a signature around a quote without following text a little awkward, do editors have a preference of whether to place the signature on the quote or on the preceding text? MasterTriangle12 (talk) 04:31, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Let's go with the second variant then. I don't have any strong preference one way or the other, but it's good to mention it somewhere in the lede. Also, if I were ever to have a quote like this:

"Not a real quote, but you get the idea."

Then I'd either add some text afterward and sign my name on the end of that text, like this. Joe (talk) 06:31, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

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Or, if I didn't have anything else to say after the quote, I might just do something like this:

"This quote is not about a boat, it is only a quote. Quoth the Joe, nevermore."

Yours, Joe (talk) 06:31, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

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It's always a good idea to leave a signature somehow, otherwise people have to look in the edit log to figure out who wrote what, and it gets terribly confusing. Anyhoo, good suggestions both. Joe (talk) 06:31, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Ah, cheers, even signature sitting alone reads better than sticking it elsewhere. And yeah I just forgot to sign, not a decision. Oh and I'll swap out the text. MasterTriangle12 (talk) 08:18, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

I was hoping there was a page for ethnic pejorative/slur to link to in the lead but there is just a list of ethnic slurs which is not really that informative as a link, I'm actually kind of surprised there isn't a specific article for that topic but I guess the specific study of slurs beyond the etymology is kinda rare. MasterTriangle12 (talk) 08:39, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

After seeing and thinking about both edits, I think I changed my mind, I like your second proposal better, on the whole. It fits nicer. Also, yeah, I don't know if it's better to link 'racial epithet' to 'epithet,' which can just mean a name for something, or to link it to the list of ethnic slurs, which isn't, as you say, super informative. Good to add the list to the 'see also' section, which I see you already did. This is kind of a weird page, not that there's anything wrong with weird pages of course. Joe (talk) 09:47, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

CNN is not the end all be all of what we should consider a slur the word is obviously racial motivated word there are tons of books and articles. This change mainly comes from bad faith wiki editors who want to downplay the word for their own reasons Caspian Delta (talk) 04:57, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

I don't understand the "debate" here. It's a slur in some cases, this is obvious, and wikipedia editlords are just equivocating, as usual. I see the 'nigger' article defines it as an ethnic slur (which it is) but has dedicated a whole other page to 'nigga', because it's ok when some people use it! (Let's ignore the fact that it isn't actually a separate word, just a phonetical spelling of the AAVN pronunciation.) I see no issue with mentioning the neutral uses of the word (most of which are historical; those who use cracker in these contexts in the 21st century are few and far between), but quit pussyfooting around because of your politics. Ya know damn well it's a racial/ethnic slur. Wikipedia is ridiculous. Maybe we should create "cracka" or "crackuh" and label that the slur? (Though this seems silly for obvious reasons and again, ya know damn well.) Whatever, I know I won't get anywhere with you people, but this is my input. Have a merry Christmas. Mercster (talk) 00:29, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

We can always have another discussion on what to call it @Mercster:, but I suspect the misc. editors wouldn't come to a different consensus on what word to use in the lede, and it looks like you know that too, so it may not be worth the bother. I might be wrong, but I don't think anyone would argue that the word isn't a slur (if someone were to argue this point, well, the RS are quite clear it's a slur) but Wikipedia is built on consensus, and if the assembled editors consensify to call it an epithet, then what more can you do? I'm personally ok calling it an epithet, though it might not be my first noun-choice, I could go either way really. Anyhoo, Merry Christmas to you. You know crackers can be Christmasy too! Joe (talk) 18:02, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

It could be a good idea to alter the lead to state that "it is commonly a pejorative" rather than "it can be a pejorative". I think my edit might have implied that it is not the most common usage. I think it could be reasonable to swap 'pejorative' for 'slur' too; I'm not too fond of it as a technical term in general but I guess it is the common parlance. MasterTriangle12 (talk) 19:19, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Yeaaah glad we have come to a consensus on the consensus. :-) Thanks Joe and Master. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFBDn5PiL00 Mercster (talk) 10:09, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

• Cracker isn't always a racist comment. At best, we can define it as a "sometimes racist comment" or similar. Historical usage also bears this out. Most modern usage has a race element to it (ie: it's always referring to white people) but you can't equate it to other racist names given to other groups, at least not on equal footing, because of the varied usage. Yes, this is an old thread, but relevant now. I would say that "sometimes" needs to be added to the lead. I would even accept "often" as a disclaimer. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 07:25, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

  Part of the issue here is that historically, the pejorative use was largely by white people against poor white people, akin to white trash. So while there is obviously a racial element, calling it racist is more complicated. CAVincent (talk) 08:20, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Etymology

I'm amazed at all the strained speculative etymology. The term "cracker" derives from the practice of cracking corn for corn grits, which along with hogs was the standard diet of poor whites in the late 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries. It was so much a staple that pellagra was a common health problem for them. The song "Jimmy crack corn, and I don't care" refers to the same thing, it's not about gossiping. I don't have a source that would be acceptable to Wikipedia, but I heard it all my life, being descended from Southern hillbillies who got here in the late 1680s and who followed the migration from Maryland down to Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, and into Texas. Tom Reedy (talk) 03:22, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Cracka

Cracka is also the pseudonym of the British hacker Kane Gamble. I cannot edit the article. Is is semiprotected. Somebody should add the disambiguation. Arwenz (talk) 20:40, 24 November 2024 (UTC)