Talk:Cristo Rey Network

Unjustified tags

I had just carefully worked over this article to make sure that it conformed to Wikipedia standards when these tags went up. I agree that it needs more in-line citations but it simply is not true that I am employed by the organization or interested in turning this into an advertisement. Please check all the commendations at the end of the article to find that it is well deserving of the evaluation given in the article. Also check the changes made at 15:48, 10 February 2017‎ and at 15:47, 10 February 2017.Jzsj (talk) 18:04, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Gist of discussion between tag placer and reviser, carried on on his talk page

Cristo Rey Network

As to the article on the Cristo Rey Network, I believe, contrary to your remarks, that my submission on the talk page is very much to the point of why the tags should be removed. I carefully redid the places where there might be an advert tone, but one must take the very high commendations at the end to evaluate whether expressions are accurate: over $18 million from the Gates Foundation plus other very notable contributors to the cause. Some of the references are indeed independent and one does not expect independent verification of every statement about a school: this is not the sort of thing that public media are in business for, and some of the independent references confirm and go beyond what the article says. Also, neither I nor Loyola Press which published the book on the Network can be considered a part of the network or anything but objective observers of a charitable work that, for very good reasons, has really soared. Jzsj (talk) 11:11, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

@Jzsj: None of your edits alter the fact that the bulk of the text was added by someone named BrendaMorrisCristoReyNetwork which shows a clear conflict of interest. That tag is necessary per policy.

As for the advertising tag, the article still contains text such as "introducing a highly innovative integration of academic and professional experience to Catholic secondary education in the United States" and "CWSP has since proven to have critical formational impact on students" none of which is referenced and is completely promotional in tone.

The bulk of the references are from www.cristoreynetwork.org and variations (www.cristoreylasvegas.org, www.cristoreyrichmond.org, www.cristoreyfortworth.org, etc) and these are primary sources and as per policy "Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published secondary sources." Justeditingtoday (talk) 09:41, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Your last revert of the three tags was within one minute of when I completed my four hours of improving the article and removed the tags. Please take time to check what we're speaking about. Nine critical references are from independent sources, who in some part of their commentary show credence in what the Network claims about itself, while adding their own very laudatory comments. Do you really expect more about the programs of secondary schools? Given all the references, the claims now contained in the article do not seem excessive. Also, please tell me how to ping someone who has no user page. Thanks. Jzsj (talk) 16:10, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

As I said before, none of your edits alter the fact that the bulk of the text was added by someone named BrendaMorrisCristoReyNetwork which shows a clear conflict of interest. That tag is necessary per policy.

You actually added more WP:PRIMARY sources here and unreliable sourcing like here (PRweb is not a reliable source).

None of your edit addressed the reason for those tags and this is the third time I have had to point that out to you. Please actually read the policies I have quoted to you. Justeditingtoday (talk) 16:12, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Help please!

There are very few laudatory adjectives remaining in this article apart from those of independent sources. The facts are left to speak for themselves. How does this differ from a university that tells of large bequests or awards it received or of its sports victories? The nine independent sources seem to me to contain the most significant praise of the network. Please give me some concrete indications of why these 3 tags remain relevant after all the changes. I'm asking for help since the person who has reinstated the tags has no user page and I don't know how to ping people who have no user page; also I've been told to keep this discussion on the article's talk page. Thanks for any help on how I can get rid of these tags without grossly under-representing the truth about the Network. I think its successes deserve an objective presentation in Wikipedia.@Dan Koehl: Jzsj (talk) 02:52, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

Questions on Catholicity

After reading this article several times, I still am not certain what this "network's" stance is with regard to the religious affiliation of its students. For example, the University of Chicago was founded by Baptists, but makes no religious evaluation or consideration for those wishing to attend. Does Christo Rey cater specifically to Catholics? Is it aimed at Hispanics? Are non-Catholic students allowed or encouraged to participate? What is the ethnic/ religious demographic of the students who become enrolled? Is this demographic the result of choices made by the organization or does it reflect the pre-existing religious identities of the communities in which it exists? Are there any statistics on this one way or the other? (How can there not be?). Could we include this sort of information somewhere in this article in order to ensure the subject's neutrality? This may mean admitting that the network is aimed specifically at Catholic students, and that it either discourages or shuns or outright denies participation to students of non-Catholic origin. To whatever extent this is true, it needs to be mentioned here somewhere. To the extent it is untrue, that should also be discussed. KDS4444 (talk) 08:41, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

I've added what the Network says, but verification of this from third party sources would be very difficult. We would likely have to go by what the schools themselves report. Schools in the network have freedom as to what racial background they focus on; it's usually whoever is in the neighborhood in which they chose to locate. I would say that these schools operate as most Catholic schools and may require students who are not Catholic to participate in some form of prayer and perhaps to at least passively attend a few Eucharistic celebrations during the year. I would hope that the priest who leads these community celebrations of the Christian Good News and of Eucharist (gratitude to God, and our all being God's children) would give an expansive explanation of these and not use them for proselytizing, but I doubt if you can generalize on what actually happens even at a given school. The schools are certainly meant to retain their Catholic identity more than have the Ivy League schools. @KDS4444: Jzsj (talk) 11:45, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Good enough for me. KDS4444 (talk) 16:51, 15 February 2017 (UTC)