Talk:Croesus

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Comments

Are there any other cases on record of people who have "accidentally" killed more than one person? Is there only one source on record for Adrastus? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.60.180.59 (talk) 11:04, 2 June 2004 (UTC)

Name?

Is there any evidence for how Croesus' name would have been rendered in the Lydian language? --Jfruh 19:30, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Is Croesus really a transliteration? Is there really a rule for converting omicron into u?? --BjKa 10:29, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Picture Choice

Is a king in 17th century monarchical regalia really appropriate to an ancient greek king? Is there anything in that picture other than a vaguery of "white male monarch in beard" which makes this unique to Croesus? totaly improveable —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.37.236.225 (talk) 04:36, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

He wasn't Greek, at least not according to Herodotus. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.186.80.23 (talk) 04:17, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree: This picture might illustrate the presence of Croesus in popular culture through the ages, but I don't find it appropriate for the opening paragraph. I'm taking it out.--BjKa 10:29, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Crassus vs. Croesus

Doesn't the expression refer to Crassus instead? He was too very rich and one would think a Roman would be more likely than a Lydian to be remembered in a popular sayingDanielcohn 00:55, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Having just seen Les Mis, I got home and looked up the lyrics. In the song 'Beggars at the Feast', M. and Mme. Thenardier sing the line "And when we're rich as Croesus". I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just pointing out how it is used in popular culture - Weebiloobil 18:56, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I actually wondered about this as well, but I agree that the reference in the song is most definitely to Croesus from Herodotus, Bacchylides, et al. Anonymous 16:58, 2 October 2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.126.15.130 (talk)

Why is Xenophon's work ignored

How come when the article mentioned that Xenophon had wrote about Croesus, the article says nothing about what Xenophon? Ignoring his work, and only repeating what Herodotus wrote is only blinding ourselves of another point of view on history. Which is more accurate, because it does not have bits of facts mixed in with lies and obvious exaggerations. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mehr113355 (talk • contribs) 19:35, 20 March 2007 (UTC).

According to the book "The Culture and Social Institutions of Ancient Iran": "... the majority of scholars do not rate this work (Cyropaedia) highly as an historical source"!Ti2008 (talk) 02:09, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

The death of Croesus

While there is no definitive account of the "death of Croesus", there are numerable references to him in Herodotus (most important was the Lydian embassy to the Delphic oracle dispatched by Cyrus as courtesy to Croesus). After the death of Cyrus, Croesus continued to serve as a royal adviser to Persian king Cambyses II. Herodotus states that the Egyptians place Croesus in the entourage of Cambyses II during the Egyptian campaign (after 525). Cambyses II is even related to have threatened to kill Croesus for bad advice, the latter surviving courtesy of the machinations of royal staffers until the mercurial king's temper cooled and he once more showed him great favor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Flausa123 (talk • contribs) 00:53, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

I have updated the section on the death of Croesus. The whole thing depends on the reading of the name of the country in the Nabonidus Chronicle, but Cargill already demonstrated in his 1977/1978 article that the reading LU is completely hypothetical. As he shows (by quoting the relevant articles; it is all very factual), the first editor of the text decided against it and others who did read it did so on historical grounds rather than having seen the text themselves. He concludes that there is no end for the debate for now (i.e., late 1970s) but that the reading LU is actually very unlikely, based on the remaining traces. Oelsner and Rollinger arrived at Ú independently of each other and it seems very plausible. This means that there is no Near Eastern source that refers to the fall of Lydia, and with Herodotus failing us here chronologically, the date of 547 is simply based on nothing (the page read 546 here and there, but the traditional date is really 547, as the relevant articles all have; I have corrected this as well throughout the page). Neither do we know what happened to Cyrus, apart from what the Greek accounts tell us, but they do not agree. Anyway, I have changed the text of the page accordingly. Cheimoon (talk) 18:05, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Well supported editing. --Wetman (talk) 19:23, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Cheimoon (talk) 01:23, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

It should be noted that a post fall of Babylon date (i.e. after 539) has been ruled out by the discovery of croeseids in the destruction layer for Sardis associated with Cyrus' siege: see N. Cahill and J.H.H. Kroll, 'New archaic coin finds at Sardis' American Journal of Archaeology 109 (2005) 589-617, esp. 589-609 on the archaeological context of the finds. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.67.172.113 (talk) 12:18, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Also, was this Croesus the one who threw himself off a tower? The Black Sail story? I was just wondering..Anderson caleb (talk) 13:57, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Croesus in Cyrus's wars against the Scythians

Can anyone add Croesus's role in the war between Cyrus and Tomyris to this article?Ti2008 (talk) 14:57, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Lydian coinage

Lydian coinage is widely held to be the first issuance of electrum (EL) and silver (AR) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Flausa123 (talk • contribs) 00:58, 19 February 2012 (UTC) The statement about Croesus' coinage that is current as of 6/25/2014 is mostly wrong and uses worthless references. Someone needs to fix this. [Current text: Croesus is credited with issuing the first true gold coins with a standardised purity for general circulation. However, they were quite crude, and were made of electrum, a naturally occurring pale yellow alloy of gold and silver. The composition of these first coins was similar to alluvial deposits found in the silt of the Pactolus river, which ran through the Lydian capital, Sardis. Later coins, including some in the British Museum, were made from gold purified by heating with common salt to remove the silver.[5] King Croesus' gold coins follow the first silver coins that had been minted by King Pheidon of Argos around 700 BC. In 546 BC, Croesus was defeated and captured by the Persians, who then adopted gold as the main metal for their coins.[6][7]] In fact, the first coins were indeed of electrum, around 625-650 BCE and appeared in Lydia and neighboring Ionia about the same time. It was formerly thought that this was simply to use the naturally occurring electrum from the local rivers, but current thinking is that the choice of electrum was more complicated, including perhaps a deliberate attempt to keep the circulation local. At any rate much of the metal came from sources other than the electrum in the river deposits and the ratio of gold to silver was standardized, not variable as in the river deposits. Croesus was the first to issue coins that were NOT electrum, using both gold and silver. Coinage quickly spread through the Greek world after this change. The Persians defeated Croesus and continued to use coinage on the periphery of their empire, but never introduced coins to the heart of the empire (not until Alexander were coins minted in the heart of Persia). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.217.190.121 (talk) 15:14, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Unrelated/anachronistic transliterations

So what exactly does the modern Persian transliteration in the Perso-Arabic script have to do here? It's anachronistic, and thus not fitting. And if that's not just strange on itself - hold on - there's also an Arabic transliteration (?!) Especially for the inclusion of the latter, there's simply no possible rationale available.
The Old Persian and Aramaic transliterations would be very fitting of course, if anyone could provide them. However, it just makes no sense in my opinion to include these two, and especially the latter. - LouisAragon (talk) 16:08, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Absolutely right. The Quranic Qarun has no connection with Croesus (see the article Korah) but was another peson also renowned for his wealth. I have deleted the reference. Kanjuzi (talk) 04:41, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

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Tyche

It is not necessary to understand the episode of Solon as a discussion about Tyche in its post hellenistic sense (as it appears in Polybius´Histories, for instance), since the topic of instability of human happyness and human states is precisely the central theme of Herodotus´Histories. Consequently i do not see this element as a reliable proof to suppose a "late date" for the episode. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RafaelLeo (talk • contribs) 10:50, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Croesus

Croesus In Albanian language it means Leader. Even today Albanian they are calling it kryesus. It comes from word KRYE which means head. As an example can be head of parliament (Parliament speaker) (KRYESUS Parlamenti), clan leader KRYESUS fisi etc. 77.100.215.86 (talk) 23:33, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Sasseville and Euler's Qλdãns hypothesis

Hi, I wanted to stress that the hypothesis by Sasseville and Euler, quoted here as a certain fact, is in fact not widely accepted by other scholars. Is this the way speculative hypotheses should be presented in an encyclopedia? 2.225.195.36 (talk) 10:37, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Cronology

Theses sources (1 and [1]) claim that Croesus started his reign in 560 BCE while this article says it started in 585 BCE. Which one is more accepted by scholars? Mawer10 (talk) 21:22, 29 June 2024 (UTC)