Talk:Croveo

Educational Project Page

This page is part of an Educational Project by students of LIUC, Italy, with a course page at: https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/LIUC_-_Universit%C3%A0_Cattaneo/Digital_Technology_(Autumn_2023)/home . The users of the group are new to the Wikipedia platform, have completed Training for Students, and are learning to edit following Wikipedia rules. They are open to any advice on improvements of the page in conformity to Wikipedia requirements and guidelines, and any help useful for the enhancement of the page will be gladly accepted. The student Usernames are:

• LiucRiccardo5
• LiucVincenzo5
• LiucGaia05
• LiucGianluca5
• LiucMavi5
• LiucLeo5

Limelightangel (talk) 20:12, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Referencing

Use the help resources and Cite templates to add correctly formatted references once the relevant text has been added. Note the Cite template formats and fields for website sources, and fix ref. 2. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Referencing_for_beginners Limelightangel (talk) 21:58, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Done! Thank you for the feedback LiucGaia05 (talk) 15:51, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Ref. 2 is still incorrect, with no date for the source information Limelightangel (talk) 15:40, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

• Web referencing has not been done correctly using the correct and available fields in the Cite Web template. Many lack publication dates, authors and publishers, and several are not stated to be in Italian. This information may be on the webpages or sites being referenced. Two have inappropriate and inconsistent use of UPPER CASE. Limelightangel (talk) 10:10, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Structure

Lead Section

Pages do not have a section header for 'Introduction'. The summary introduction or 'lead section' is explained at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section Limelightangel (talk) 15:39, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

You need to start with the 'lead section', not least to avoid duplicating the links and content in this first section. The History and Geography sections should not contain the location, and some of this belongs in the lead section. Location is included in 3 separate places, instead of 1. The summary introduction or 'lead section' is explained at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section Limelightangel (talk) 19:10, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

A lead section and an infobox have been added LiucGaia05 (talk) 19:45, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

• duplicate and redundant content related to location near Baceno in the Antigorio valley. This information is duplicated twice and should exist once and uniquely in the lead section.

Limelightangel (talk) 09:43, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

History

• needs to be chronological

Limelightangel (talk) 19:21, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

• the tabulated data on 'buildings' is incorrectly placed in Demographics. It is better place in a History sub-section related to recent times, with brief supporting text identifying half the buildings being over 100 years old and a decline in new building since the 1980s. Alternatively it could go in a section architecture and Buildings. Limelightangel (talk) 08:33, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Territory

I have merged the Geography and Nature part because we thought it would be better for the end result, is there any other topic that might be included in others?

These are two different sections. 'Nature' is better as Flora and Fauna'. Topographic information goes in a separate section. Sign all Talk page posts.Limelightangel (talk) 09:30, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

I will change it @Limelightangel LiucLeo5 (talk) 16:09, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Economy

• spacing errors
• the naming of specific resteraunts could be regarded as promotion. It may be better to simply say there are X resteraunts. Limelightangel (talk) 09:58, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

  I delete the name of the restaurants and also fix the space errors. LiucVincenzo5 (talk) 17:11, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Trekking

• the subsection name is incorrect and better as Walking or similar - look at similar pages.
• give the English name first and include the Italian translation in brackets, as shouuld be done in other area.
• the second two paragraphs have no sources. Limelightangel (talk) 10:07, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

  thanks for your feedback @Limelightangel, I will fix them LiucLeo5 (talk) 14:14, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Culture

The witch Trials is a good sub-topic but in the wrong section, and needs explicitly connecting to Croveo. The draft content is generic and more relevant on other pages. If the information can be developed to include Croveo it could be placed chronologically in the relevant History sub-section. Limelightangel (talk) 09:58, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

I have moved the Witch Trials sub-topic in the Renaissance sub-section under History, and explicitly connected it to Croveo. LiucGaia05 (talk) 17:34, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Images

• Should we add images for every topic? or do you think it'd be better to have all of them in the gallery section? LiucGianluca5 (talk) 17:15, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

I think it is better to add images in a particular topic section if it is strictly useful to the topic explaination.

I would add extra images in the gallery to visitor's awareness about Croveo. LiucLeo5 (talk) 18:27, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

• the current draft images are good ones. They need to be positioned adjacent to the text in the relevant sections. The need image captions adding that expain what and where they are, in English. Limelightangel (talk) 10:14, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Style

• check format for dates, numbers and centuries e.g. 'X century'; II century BC; etc. See Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers
• do not start sentences with 'But...'
• its not a 'city'.
• 'Chiesa Parrocchiale' is Italian. Should this be 'Parish Church' or similar?
• 'specifically in Piedmont'

Limelightangel (talk) 19:16, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

I changed the name from the italian "Chiesa Parrocchiale" to english. LiucRiccardo5 (talk) 17:04, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

• 'on the other hand'
• 'moreover'
• 'moving down toward the village'
• 'every iconic animal'
• 'guarantee preservation'
• 'is home to* 'Noble buildings'
• ' illustrative is the case of'
• 'meticulous'
• 'spearheaded'
• 'consequently'
• 'auspicious'
• 'of particular note'
• 'graciously'
• 'notable'
• 'but also'
• 'important resteraunts'
• 'nonetheless'

Limelightangel (talk) 08:15, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Grammar

• 'the city was introduced in an offical document'.
• 'located inside Ossola'
• 'built on a landslide church'
• 'mostly composed by Larch and Red Pine'.
• Inconsistency: 'northern Italy' and 'Northern Italy'. Check convention: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Capital_letters#Compass_points

Limelightangel (talk) 17:05, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

• 'that characterise Italian Alps'
• 'is managed by three municipalities Trasquera, Credo and Baceno.
• 'italian'
• 'made of 119 males and 112 females, 87 of them are married and 1 is divorced.
• 'Quantity'
• 'With an age distribution that can be divided as follows: '
• 'like the majority of cities'
• 'croveo'
• 'most of it are meat dishes'
• 'a bread and breakfast....is present in Croveo,'
• 'such as chestnuts gnocchi or polenta'
• 'catering and tourism are the most important economic sources.'
• 'long difficult trail'
• 'It starts and crosses Croveo'
• 'passing beside'
• 'Croveo's city centre'
• 'is a easy level track'
• 'the point of arrival are'
• 'which dated from'

Limelightangel (talk) 08:23, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Linking

• the link out to Ossola does not work and has an incorrect format.
• the link Alpi Leopontine should not use the Italian phrase and should be Lepontine Alps
• the final link to https://www.visitossola.it/poi/arrampicata-falesia-di-croveo/ is incorrectly located and formatted as a reference

Limelightangel (talk) 19:39, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

thanks for the feedback, everything will be fixed LiucLeo5 (talk) 16:39, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

• overlinking: Larch and Red Pine. Limelightangel (talk) 17:16, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

• overlinking: cliff, Switzerland, degrees Celcius. Check conventions on temperatures and conversion: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers

Limelightangel (talk) 07:04, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Overlinking issues have been fixed, as well as temperatures and conversion. LiucGaia05 (talk) 22:50, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

• duplicate links e.g. to Baceno & Piedmont. Limelightangel (talk) 08:13, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Content

• Content irrelevant to page topic: During the X century there were no large cities in the Italian territories and the people were distributed throughout the countryside in villages like Baceno.Limelightangel (talk) 17:13, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

  I thought this was useful to give an historical context of the place, especially because it's a quite unusual type of "village" (I looked up for a term similar to "frazione" but it seems like it doesn't exist a proper translation in English). Should I remove it? LiucMavi5 (talk) 18:37, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

  This content relates to the existing page on Baceno. The convention for century is incorrect. Limelightangel (talk) 06:59, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

  Done it, I fixed the content. Thank you for the feedback. LiucMavi5 (talk) 17:11, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

History

• Ancient History and Middle Age are incorrect subsection headers
• Errors of style and grammar are highlighted in bold in the following text: Ancient Age

During the Ancient Age there were no large settlements in the Italian territories and the people were distributed throughout the countryside in the so called villages. The 28 November 1958, during the excavations for the creation of the sewage system of the city of Croveo, archaeological finds have uncovered a tomb dating back to the 2nd century. This suggests that the place was not new to the presence of human life and most likely was already inhabited in that period Limelightangel (talk) 07:13, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

• Errors of style and grammar are highlighted in bold in the following text: During the Middle Age, while in Europe feudalism was spreading, in Italy the first municipal cities began to be founded. Croveo was one of these. The city was officially introduced and recognized by the Regnum Italiae in 918. One of the reasons why this territory was populated in ancient times is its strategic position in between the two valleys of Devero Antigorio and Formazza. The valleys made the settlement naturally protected by simulating defensive walls.

Limelightangel (talk) 08:12, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

How can I change "Middle Age" and "Ancient History" so that it is more correct? I think I fixed all the other errors. LiucMavi5 (talk) 17:08, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Talk page style

Note the guidelines on Talk page use, including style, structuring the discusions and signing all posts:Help:Talk_pages. Avoid the personal tense where possible and inappropriate language. Talk is visible to other editors, so it needs to be clear who is saying what, and 'we' will mean nothing to them. To sign posts you can use the 1 click option below the editor space, or simply add the 4 '~' symbols manually. You can edit Talk pages to correct your content.Limelightangel (talk) 07:02, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Fixing Bugs

I tried to fix some of the bugs that the statistics page is showing but they are still visible as bugs, does it mean that they haven’t been fixed? Or maybe the page is made like that? @Limelightangel: . LiucGianluca5 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 10:18, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Now it's fixed, I just had to wait. LiucGianluca5 (talk) LiucGianluca5 (talk) 14:13, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Review 4/12/23

• earlier feedback has not been effectively responded to or understood, and many issues are repeated.
• the page lacks recent relevant images for the topic and sections.
• lead section could briefly mention the period it was associated with witches.
• the page needs the addition of correct See Also, External links and Categories. See:

1. Help:Categories
2. Wikipedia:External_links
3. Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Layout#"See_also"_section

• check and consistently apply conventions on the use of bold and italics. See: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Text_formatting

I did some changes and formatted many words with Bold, thank you for the feedback. --LiucGianluca5 (talk) 15:51, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

• check and consistently apply conventions on the use of dates and numbers. See: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Dates_and_time
• Ancient History, Trekking, Mountain Bike, Modern Age and Middle Age are all incorrect section titles, as is Middle Age in the text. 1647 is not the 'Modern Age'.
• there is no post-1647 history provided. Earlier advice on at least partly addressing this with the historic building data has not been incorporated.
• structure: Buidings is incorrectly placed in Demographics.
• repetition of issues with inappropriate style: 'Then in 1595'; 'in recent times' (twice); 'important collection'; 'nonetheless'; 'however'; 'moreover'; 'moving then towards'; 'every iconic animal'; 'The art present inside contains: '; 'spearheaded by'; 'Consequently'; 'that illuminate the historical crafts'; 'graciously donated '; 'complete with the '; 'but every Sunday';
• extensive grammar issues: 'the feud was assigned to'; 'vegetal'; 'italian';'walnuts." '; 'the twelve Apostles'; 'to raise the alarm them and prepare defenses.'; 'the Belltower'; 'It is also present a valuable collection of'; 'some of whom dating back to'; 'reflective of the priest's notable passion'; 'The history of this place has started in 1966'; 'The sculture consists of '; 'a pyramidal base at which top there are '; 'A bread and breakfast is present in Croveo ,'; 'an agritourism called is also located in town.'; 'in croveo'; 'There is a tourism office , Giovanni Boggi , municipal segretary of the town , is taking care of it.'; 'the best apples picked by farmers and the best honeys by beekeepers.'; 'a 18 kilometres long difficult trail with a duration of 3 to 6 hours. It starts and crosses Croveo, passing beside Croveo's potholes '; 'the track called'; 'which is a easy level track'; 'also accessible by bike '; 'Croveo is starting point for the track'; 'Another track correlated with trekking activity '; 'The point of arrival are the so called'; 'there is a ring-route which bring to Agaro Lake'; 'supply with energy the near villages in 1936.';

Grammar errors have been fixed, thank you for the feedback. LiucGaia05 (talk) 02:18, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

• The entire section on Administration needs re-writing and errors in bold correcting: The mayor of Croveo is Andrea Vicini, his political strength is "United for Baceno"'. He was born in Domodossola on April 15, 1972. In the municipal council there are some people dedicating their job to the halth of the municipal. the Deputy Mayor Stefano Costa, taking care of European projects, waste, tourism and territorial project. The majority councillor Graziano Villaborghi is in charge of Public Works (aqueducts, roads, lighting), school canteen, school buses, cemetery services, civil protection. There are 9 other majority councillors; Elena Beltrami, in charge of CISS Referent, library, municipal council of children. Maria Dattrino is the contact person for culture and cemetery services. Dino Della Maddalena is in charge of civil protection and the maintenance of forests and paths. Paolo Ferrari is in charge of relationship with Ente Parco and he's the reference of problems with fractions. Marco Gallacci is the reference of haunting and taking care of wild boar's containment. Diego Noretta is adminstrating rubbish problems. Paolo Sartori is in charge for sport , musical activities and he is the reference of VVFF and voulontary associations. Martina Signorini is the reference for tourism and relationship with Pro Loco. The municipal segretary is the person who does jobs of collaboration and legal and administrative assistance functions. Giovanni Boggi is the municipal segretary of Croveo.
• images: see earlier comments related to captions, positioning and use.
• the empty 'Gallery' section needs resolving. See guidelines in WP:GALLERY; to make a gallery, see Help:Gallery_tag#Syntax
• references: see earlier comments. Issues with missing publication dates, authors, unclear Italian sources, over-reliance on Italian sources (1 English source).
• consider incorporating translation of units of measurement, including distance and temperatures. See: Help:Convert
• missing link out: 'Feoffment'
• see earlier feedback on duplicating links out.
• overlinking: 'degrees celcius'; 'winepress'; 'museum'; 'Rome'; 'Italy'; 'jogging';
• inconsistent date formats e.g. 'April 15, 1972.'; 'July 19 2015,'; '11 April 1920.'; etc. See: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers#Numbers
• check conventions for all numbers, dates, heights above sea level and areas of land, and be consistent in these formats e.g. 'm.a.s.l.'; '8536 hectares'; '1600'; etc. See: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers#Numbers
• incorrect tense for 2011 population data.
• no date for tabulated demographic data; no headers for the tables; no sources for the data tabulated;

I should have fixed the headers, I didn't want to use the same source in every table but I wil add it. Thank you for the feedback LiucGianluca5 (talk) 15:55, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

• minor formating issue with colomn 5 of buildings table.
• several entire sections have large text sections with just a single source rather than synthesis from several sources. The entire section on Economy has no sources.
• phrases/terms in Italian need translating and correctly formating as translations. Check the conventions. e.g. 'La Festa Delle Streghe Di Croveo.'
• redundant, duplicated and incorrectly located content: "in Croveo, a hamlet of Baceno in the Antigorio Valley,"; " Parish Church dedicated to the Nativity of the Virgin";

Limelightangel (talk) 15:23, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Review 11/4/23

• 56 edits made related to structure, grammar and style
• images need consistent alignment and sizes
• the relevance of the image for Codelago is unclear to the page topic; it shows ski-touring, which is unmentioned and irrelevant to the adjacent section on 'hiking'

The image for Codelago has been changed with a more relevant picture of The Devil's Cauldrons, which is mentioned in the 'hiking' section and can be seen from one of the hiking trails in Croveo. LiucGaia05 (talk) 20:08, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

• an attempt should be made to get relevant permission for an image of Balma del Capretto (Shelter of Baby Goat )

An attempt was made the 11 December 2023. I'm waiting for a reply. LiucMavi5 (talk) 17:49, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

• a map of the village locality is relevant
• regular inconsistencies in the correct use of italics
• See also links duplicate links in the text

Redundant links (Baceno, Piedmont and Bubonic plague) have been eliminated. LiucMavi5 (talk) 18:18, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

• 4 of the 6 gallery images relate to hiostoric images of 'the barrage', which is not explicitly mentioned in the article, and it is unclear what or where this is

The barrage is now mentioned in the Monuments section with its respective images. LiucMavi5 (talk) 18:33, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

• there are multiple referencing issues including duplicate references and missing website information (date, authors, Italian names, etc.), and an over-reliance on Italian sources from commune and tourit websites.
• obvious authoritative sources and information have been omitted, including for historical information e.g. in 1609-1610 Limelightangel (talk) 11:58, 11 December 2023 (UTC)