Talk:Crown-Ikarus 286

Proposed merge with Orion Bus Industries Orion-Ikarus 286

Both bus models are virtually identical except for the name and manufacturing location, and so they do not warrant separate articles especially when one of the articles is very short. Therefore, I would propose that they be merged under the more general Ikarus 286 title. ««« SOME GADGET GEEK »»» (talk) 01:01, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

• Strong oppose: The Crown-Ikarus article is well-written and includes extensive citations of reliable sources (full disclosure: I wrote it), whereas the other one is so poor that it should have been deleted years ago; it has never cited a single source. When it was created in 2013, I assumed that someone would nominate it for deletion soon if it did not improve, which it never did. I did not PROD it myself, because I dislike arguing with other transit-fan editors, but I've kept it on my watchlist continuously and if someone else had PRODed it, I would have supported the deletion nomination. The complete lack of sourcing has also allowed major errors, including in the article's title (currently "Orion Bus Industries Orion-Ikarus 286"): No company named "Orion Bus Industries" existed during the years of production of the Orion-Ikarus. Orion was only a brand name until 1995, and the actual name of the company that built the Canadian Ikarus buses was Ontario Bus Industries. (The article on Orion Bus Industries was also badly erred/misleading on this point until just now, when I corrected that longstanding deficiency.)

As to merging (temporarily setting aside my deletion argument): This is not just an article about a bus model; it is an article about a joint venture between a American company and a Hungarian company. For that reason, I have been planning to rename the article simply "Crown-Ikarus" (without "286") and tweak the intro wording in accordance with that move, for some time now, but had not gotten around to it. If the Crown-Ikarus and Orion-Ikarus buses were "virtually identical" (says who?) as User:Some Gadget Geek claims, that may (or may not) be true from the perspective of a bus driver or transit agency, but those are not the only points of view relevant for Wikipedia. The Crown-Ikarus was assembled entirely in the U.S., by a U.S. company (and using U.S. parts for nearly all but the bodyshells), while the Orion-Ikarus was assembled entirely in Canada, by a Canadian company (and a company that was not affiliated with Crown Coach). That is not a minor distinction. And bus fans are not the only audience for Wikipedia articles like this one. These two subjects should remain separate articles, and in my opinion the completely unsourced (and misnamed) "Orion Bus Industries Orion-Ikarus 286" article should be deleted until and unless it can be brought up to reasonable minimum WP standards. SJ Morg (talk) 12:04, 7 February 2019 (UTC)