Talk:Crown Heights, Brooklyn

Article mostly about a brief period

This page mostly concerns itself with a brief period in the history of Crown Heights.

That is of course no reason to remove it. Dysprosia 04:23, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

How about reformatting this page to discuss the neighborhood and briefly mentioning the riots while providing a link to Crown Heights Riot? Atheistrabbi 7 July 2005 14:00 (UTC)

History

I redid this section because the it was terrible, most of it wasn't even have complete sentences or nothing. Now, the original had no sources, and while I think I have some knowledge of the area's history, I've picked it up randomly and informally, have never read anything about it to use as a source, and have never been there, spoken with someone at all authoritative on the subject, or done anything else to support my belief that I have this knowledge. So, the current history section is a combination of two sets of assertions on the subject which, if I'm very lucky, may very well be accurate. If someone would know even remotely what they're talking about here, please look it over.

Certified: the above written by S. Martin at 07:40, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

West Indian

The term West Indian is not regarded highly by many of Caribbean descent, so why use it? 17:40, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

It isn't? Jayjg ^(talk) 17:18, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I grew up in Crown Heights, that is what the parade is called.

Borders of Crown Heights

-- the generally accepted Western border of Crown Heights North of Eastern Parkway has moved with time, first towards the West (as far as Vanderbilt, or all the way to Flatbush) and more recently back towards the East (some claim as far as Bedford, others say Classon, others say Washington). It really depends on whom you ask or what decade you're talking about, as there's no official or natural boundary. -- 01Apr07.

I'm not so sure that Bedford is the western border. I'd consider Washington, or even Flatbush Avenue, which both use the 11225 zip code (within the other borders).

Sometimesdee 16:16, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Crown Heights is much furtehr east than that. It doesn't really start until Bedford Avenue. Washington Avenue is still wholy within Prospect Heights.

The Encyclopedia of the City of New York (Columbia University Press) lists Washington Avenue as the border between Crown Heights and Prospect Heights. This is the definitive guide to NYC. All boundaries to the east of Washington are made up by real estate brokers trying to pass off Crown Heights apartments as being located in Prospect Heights.

Speaking of renaming... can we just call [Crown Heights] + [Prospect Heights] = "Museum Heights" and be done with it? ;)

Maybe becasue the residents would wonder why their area had suddenly been renamed?? I can't see what the problem with Crown Heights is, it has a nice ring to it. CyntWorkStuff 18:17, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

The northern border is listed as Park Place, which may have been true decades ago, but seems awfully south of the accepted northern border of Atlantic Ave. Thoughts? Justplainzach (talk) 22:04, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

this article seems out of date

The majority of the article seems to have been written well over a decade ago when the disturbance dubbed the "Crown Heights Riots" had only recently occurred. While no doubt a event of historical significance, it happened a while ago and only in a small area of Crown Heights.

The current history, demographics, etc., etc. really needs to be updated. CyntWorkStuff 18:17, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Since there is a separate article about the Crown Heights Riot, I don't think so many of the facts should be repeated here, especially since it doesn't touch on underlying reasons of racial competition and tension.--Parkwells (talk) 20:59, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

the correct way to list "Notable natives"

Meaning no disrespect at all to the Rebbe (Menachem Mendel Schneerson), but as far as I have seen these "Notable natives" lists just have the person's name and you are expected to click the link to get further info such as dates of birth, death, why "notable" etc. Could someone find the "wiki rules" for this type of thing? CyntWorkStuff 17:36, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Area

It is two miles "long" and two miles "deep". Why not just say 2 miles width and length... how can you measure depth on a town... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.202.90.180 (talk) 00:53, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

by not being shomer shabbos. :p 68.32.48.59 (talk) 03:54, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

ok, so Sabbath-breaking has nothing to do with it, whatever. Big Deal. As for crown heights, it's probably three or four stories deep. 68.32.48.59 (talk) 03:55, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

3 or 4 stories deep... how do you measure depth of a town. its eg: manhattan is long and thin.... crown heits is deep? Do you get my point. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.23.225.189 (talk) 23:32, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Current renaissance

The second sentence in the Current renaissance section, "Rising real estate values and gentrification have also recently become part of this mix," cites an article from 1985. I don't contest the validity of the sentence, but the article is definitely out of date. 69.114.175.5 (talk) 01:19, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Quotes without sources

This entire message contradicts itself and lacks sufficient if any evidence. First it says Jewish immigrants, as well as newcomers from Jamaica and African-American's from the south impacted the neighborhood in the 1930's. Therefore, African-American's and some Caribbean people would have been living in the neighborhood already. Most African-American's who had come to Crown Heights and Brooklyn period done so before WWII. Most West Indians done so after. This article also gives a negative vibe on Caribbean immigrants. West Indians actually have come to the U.S. relatively economically and educationally sound, being involved in technology, health care and a variety of fields. To imply that they were populating a place that was run down, and that they'd push out who was there, isn't adequately described and is very open ended. What evidence is that people from this exact neighborhood went to suburbs anyway? And what suburbs? Nothing is specified. I'll be taking out the follower unsourced quotes:

First, I'll change Population changes began in the 1930s with Jewish immigrants as well as newcomers from Jamaica, African Americans and from the south.

Before I even talk about the criteria, the grammatical structure of the sense is off. What recording is there that Jewish immigrants came in the 1930's? I haven't read this anywhere. There's nothing to source that. In fact, the 1924 Johnson-Reed act directly contradicts it and has even been regarded by many as directly anti-semitic. European immigrants was significantly reduced after 1924, for the few following decades. [There's nothing that describes it's quantitative or numerical contributions or significance.] I'll change it to this Also, African-American migration, as well as Caribbean migration, began in the 1920's, not the 1930's.

Population changes began in the 1920s with newcomers from Jamaica and African-American's from the south.

Many second and third generation people of Jewish descent had settled in the area.

Second and third generation Americans of Jewish descent had settled in the area? Where did they come from? Where is this being sourced from?

With increasing immigration from rural areas of the Caribbean, Crown Heights became an area of population with low skills for the urban environment.

What source is there to support that people were coming from rural areas of the Caribbean? How would have they been able to afford to move to New York? The way this statement sounds is that people from rural areas are supposed to be unskilled. It doesn't describe those rural areas as poor or developing. Tom71.245.112.131 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:39, 2 June 2009 (UTC).

No source on quote

Afterwards, African American and Caribbean residents took out their anger on Jewish residents. Stones and other objects were thrown, fires were set and shops were looted. On the same day, black teenagers attacked Yankel Rosenbaum, a Jewish student from Australia. .

This comment lacks source. It's very generalized. It implies the all African-American or Caribbean residents attacked Jewish residents. Most people who resort to looting or rioting type behavior are poor. There are significant income and educational gaps between the African-American and West Indian populations of Crown Heights. The West Indian immigrants are more stable, educated and often are even regarded to not get along well with African-Americans. Where did anything say stones and objects were thrown? And what Jewish residents were attacked? I'm taking this quote out due to a lack of sourcing. TomNyj0127 (talk)

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Undue statistics

@Epicgenius: can I assume that if I look in the edit history I will find out that the material you insist on restoring was originally added by you like on all the other pages? Again, WP:DUEWEIGHT. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 23:31, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

I do, and I honestly don't care that you look at the history. You're disruptively editing these statistics out while the discussion is still ongoing. Epicgenius (talk) 23:32, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

I’m not asking if you care or not, I’m asking if you’re the original author of the text you’re restoring without satisfying the due weight concerns I raised. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 23:36, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

If the content was reliably sourced, and there is no consensus for removing it, then it should stay in the article; this does not change based on whether it was added by Epicgenius, Jimmy Wales, William Shatner or the Unabomber. Is there any actual reason to remove it? jp×g 01:16, 18 March 2021 (UTC)