Talk:Ctenophora/Archive 1

Archive 1

Copyvio from external link?

The "external link" has a few lines that are exactly the same as those in the Wikipedia article, making me thing some wikipedian went a plagiarized a little.

Is it plagiarism if the person who wrote the original work added the same words to Wikipedia? Not positive, but I think that's what you are talking about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Leuckartiara (talk • contribs) 18:17, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Etymology?

I'm inserting a request on the talk pages for Ctenophore and Cnidaria to add an Etymology section. The "silent c" is uncommon enough in language that I'd be very interested to know where it comes from.174.46.172.13 (talk) 09:28, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

See Ctenophore#Description. The "ct" beginning of a word (κτ in Greek, "kt") is fairly common in Ancient Greek, but I can't think of other languages that use it. --Philcha (talk) 11:36, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Translation from German Wikipedia

Just a quick heads up - a translation from the featured de:Rippenquallen is in progress. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 23:07, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Expert tag added

The {{expert}} tag has been added to the article in case anything was lost in translation - I'm not a biologist, so can't be 100% sure that words like 'cilia' and 'phylogeny' have been used completely accurately. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 15:27, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Is this the best template to use? I'm not an expert (actually just a high school student taking AP Biology), but I can tell you that those two words work, and are fine in the article where I've seen them. Could you translate the article for Cnidaria next? Twilight Realm 05:43, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, I've been reviewing it myself every so often - I recently changed a translation of the German 'Schleim' from 'slime' to 'mucus', which I'm fairly sure is preferable. Things like that remind me that I'm not a biology expert and that I may have missed other sub-optimal translations. But if you don't see anything, I'm happy for you to remove the expert tag. 'Expert' might be slightly misleading, someone knowledgable in the subject was all I was looking for.

It would ideally still need someone to convert the references to in-line form, which would require someone who had access to the references provided (or some equally good ones). It couldn't be that hard, the references include page numbers after all - if I was still at university I'd have a look in the library myself. So that's not exactly an expert thing either, but it's still something that's beyond me at the moment. If that was done and my prose was overhauled, I see no reason why this couldn't join the German article as a featured article.

I'll certainly have a go at Cnidaria at some point. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 09:28, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Completely deleted obscene pictures from this page —The preceding unsigned comment was added by J;lkupoi (talk • contribs) .

From what I have read about the molecular analysis, ctenophores are believed to be basal to the metazoa. That leaves bilaterians and cnidarians as sister groups, contrary both to classical view and modern morphological view.

• I edited some of it, fixing some translation and misconceptions, but I agree with the comments above about them being basal metazoa -- I didn't try to sort that part out yet.

Regarding the pet question, the answer is: not really, but some tropical platyctenes can live in a bowl on your desk for a while... beroe 02:25, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

does anyone know if these can be kept as pets?

Relative place on animal tree

Aren't ctenophores between trichoplax and cnidaria? Werothegreat 12:40, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Mesoglea?

If mesoglea is the preferred spelling, instances of mesogloea should be edited conformably. --Wetman 12:23, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Introduction

I'm not an expert in the area, but I think this page could be vastly improved by editing of the introduction. The rest of its layout is well-organized and attractive, and the intro really detracts from the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.133.94.29 (talk) 22:20, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

"Editing" is pretty vague. Doing what, exactly? 130.216.172.70 (talk) 02:50, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

150,000 described species?

The atricle claims that there are close to 150,000 described species. Is it really true that so many species of Ctenophore are known, or is there perhaps an error in this claim, maybe even as much as three decimal orders of magnitude? 130.188.8.9 (talk) 15:56, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Apparently the number of known species was changed from 150 to 150,000 by some casual user on March 19th. I have reverted this now, in good faith. Feel free to change it back to 150,000 if you have good references. 130.188.8.9 (talk) 16:11, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

150 is a good upper-end estimate of number of species. More accurate perhaps is to say 100-150, which is what I came up with after a lot of thought a few years ago. Cteno-taxonomist Leuckartiara (talk) 18:19, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Is there any particularly good source for identification of the individual species? 100-150 doesn't seem very many to catalogue. Cesiumfrog (talk) 01:30, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

There is an online species list at http://faculty.washington.edu/cemills/Ctenolist.html with nearly 200 species names. Many of them have not been revisited in decades (centuries in some cases) - and in some cases it is about impossible to tell what the old description refers to by what we know about species now. Scientists who work on ctenophores are aware of additional 25-40 undescribed species, but haven't gotten around to describing them yet. There is not any kind of world compendium of modern ctenophore species that includes descriptions and illustrations of each species. The single modern publications with the most descriptions and illustrations of ctenophores were both written for species on the west coast of North America, but include a number of oceanic or deep sea species that can be found elsewhere. These include Wrobel and Mills, 1998 and 2003, which unfortunately is out of print and fairly difficult to find these days, and a section on Ctenophores by Mills and Haddock (2007) from Light and Smith's Manual: Intertidal Invertebrates of the Central California Coast. Fourth Edition (J.T. Carlton, editor). University of California Press, Berkeley. The pdf of this chapter can be found online. Much of the information about ctenophores from the Wrobel and Mills (1998) book can be found online at http://jellieszone.com/ctenophores.htm. Although, as you point out, 100-150 doesn't seem very many to catalogue, none of the scientists who study ctenophore taxonomy is devoted solely to this group, so progress is slow and sporadic. (Mediterranean ctenophores were summarized and illustrated by Carl Chun in 1880, but this is obviously hard to find and in German [Chun, C. 1880. Die Ctenophoren des Golfes von Neapel und der angrenzenden Meeres-abschnitte. Fauna und Flora des Golfes von Neapel, herausgegeben von der zoologischen Station in Neapel. I. Monographie XVIII. Wilhelm Engelmann, Leipzig, 313 pages with 18 plates and 22 text-figures] and ctenophores on the eastern seaboard of North America were monographed in 1912 by A.G. Mayer [Mayer, A.G. 1912. Ctenophores of the Atlantic Coast of North America. Carnegie Institution of Washington, Publication No. 162: 1-58.] Leuckartiara (talk) 22:20, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Clarification requested

Could someone knowledgable clarify the following wording:

For this reason the 'classical' grouping of Coelenterata stands opposite the alternative taxon of Acrosomata:

Alternative 1: Coelenterata

..

Alternative 2: ...

Are the two alternatives both "new" (as opposed to classical)? Or are both alternatives classical? Or is one new and one classical? Also, the phrase "stands opposite" is new to me ... if it is a term of art in the phylogentic community, perhaps you could find a more commonplace substitute. Regards, --Noleander (talk) 20:26, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Possible makeover

Hi, I currently have D. T. Anderson's Invertebrate Zoology (2nd ed, Oxford Univ. Press, 2001, ISBN 0-19-551368-1) and Ruppert, Fox, & Barnes' Invertebrate Zoology – A functional evolutionary approach (Brooks/Cole 2004, ISBN 0-03-025982-7) on loan from a library, and am going though the WP articles on the main invertebrate phyla. So far I've used them to get Mollusc and Arthropod to GA, upgrade Spider so it kept its GA status (it was about to lose that as a result of a reassessment), and I've submitted upgraded versions Chelicerate and Sponge for GA review - and will soon submit Cnidaria for GA review. Ctenophore is B-class but seems to have a lot of gaps. How would you feel if I did a similar makeover job on Ctenophore? --Philcha (talk) 09:54, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Years have passed since you made this comment, but I would (still) recommend that you not use textbooks as authorities on the less-studied invertebrate phyla including Ctenophora. Many statements about (for instance) ctenophores in textbooks appear as generalizations for the whole group, when they come from single species and are not further applicable. Authors of general invertebrate textbooks are not hugely familiar with many of the less-common groups and should not be considered the final authority. Leuckartiara (talk) 22:02, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Taxobox Picture

Can anybody find a better picture for the taxobox? I know those types of pictures confuse me, though I don't know if they confuse anybody else...Barn Owl 444 (talk) 22:59, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Sources

These might be useful: --Philcha (talk) 17:44, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Overview

• comment need to restructure - if cydippids ancestral form, use like HAM in Mollusca.
• Ctenophora (Sea Walnuts and Comb Jellies) - Encyclopedia of Life Sciences - N.B. "Perhaps the best-known cydippid is Pleurobrachia pileus, the sea gooseberry,"
• Ctenophores - some notes from an expert
• In situ observations of foraging, feeding, and escape behavior in three orders of oceanic ctenophores: Lobata, Cestida, and Beroida

Anatomy & vital functions

The anatomical diagram of a cydippid ctenophore is not correctly labeled. The location labeled "stomach" is merely an area where the canals merge. The stomach of a ctenophore is the same as its "pharynx" - if colored pink, that color should be applied to the entire region from the mouth down to the complicated intersection of canals above the word "stomach". The colorless areas on this diagram are the canal system. Leuckartiara (talk) 22:47, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

• textbooks (mostly based on Cydippida)
• Cydippida
  • Giant Axons and Escape Swimming in Euplokamis dunlapae (Ctenophora: Cydippida) (GO Mackie - The Biological Bulletin, April 1992, pp 248-256 ) - "emergency mode" triggered by giant axons. See also [http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=GTMVRImOgmkC&oi=fnd&pg=PA435&dq=Giant+Axons+and+Escape+Swimming+in+Euplokamis+dunlapae&ots=qfrCOuZphF&sig=Yc9s52C9VoqDXwHt_ttek-W2iW0 Zooplankton (ed. P. Lenz; chapter=Defensive Straegies in Planktonic Coelenterates, page=435; author=G.O. Mackie)
  • Ctenophora in the Arctic: the abundance, distribution and predatory impact of the cydippid ctenophore Mertensia ovum (Fabricius) in the Barents Sea (Polar Research, Volume 10 Issue 2, Pages 507 - 524, May 2007; doi 10.1111/j.1751-8369.1991.tb00669.x) - a very efficient predator.
• Lobata:
  • Physical constraints on the evolution of ctenophore size and shape - if right, important: Mnemiopsis comb movements co-ordinated neurally, allows lobates to grow larger than cydippids.
  • Planktonic Feeding and Evolutionary Significance of the Lobate Body Plan Within the Ctenophora (JH Costello, R. Coverdale - The Biological Bulletin, 1998, vol. 195, issue 2, pp. 247-248; ISSN 0006-3185) - explains really well
• [http://www.springerlink.com/content/p7062542426803x6/ Not all ctenophores are hermaphrodites. Studies on the systematics, distribution, sexuality and development of two species of Ocyropsis
• Platyctenida:
  • Scholar offered nothing I hadn't already seen.
• Thalassocalycida:
  • What determines the likelihood of species discovery in marine holozooplankton: is size, range or depth important?
• Cryptolobiferida:
  • nada, zilch
• Ganeshida:
  • ditto (zip)
• Cambojiida
  • ditto!!
• "Non-conventional" forms:
  • An undescribed lobate ctenophore, Lobatolampea tetragona gen. nov. & spec. nov., representing a new family, from Japan (Zoologische. Mededeelingen, 73 (30), Mar 2000: 457-464, ISSN 0024-0672.) - intermediate between the orders Cydippida and Lobata. The larvae are of the cydippid type.

repro & development

• The Development of Radial and Biradial Symmetry: The Evolution of Bilaterality - note cleavage program and orther developmental features
• Intracellular Fate Mapping in a Basal Metazoan, the Ctenophore Mnemiopsis leidyi, Reveals the Origins of Mesoderm and the Existence of Indeterminate Cell Lineages
• The Significance of Muscle Cells for the Origin of Mesoderm in Bilateria

Reproduction

• Larval reproduction in the ctenophore Mnemiopsis mccradyi (order Lobata) - some larvae, of 1.5 to 2.8 mm (oral-aboral length), produce viable gametes

Movement

• Swimming movements of ctenophores, and the mechanics of propulsion by ctene rows
• Primary inhibition: a mechanism for sudden stoppage of metachrony in ctenophores - a beroid and cydippid both uses nervous signal to stop propulsion when startled.

Bioluminescence

• Not All Ctenophores Are Bioluminescent: Pleurobrachia - also at JSTOR

Ecological aspects

Invasive

• Distribution and abundance of the American comb jelly (Mnemiopsis leidyi) – A rapid invasion to the northern Baltic Sea during 2007
• Widespread and persistent increase of Ctenophora in the continental shelf ecosystem off NE USA
• Trophodynamic model of the Black and Azov Sea pelagic ecosystem: consequences of the comb jelly, 'Mnemiopsis leydei, invasion
• Increased Chlorophyll Levels in the Southern Caspian Sea Following an Invasion of Jellyfish
• Invasion of the Caspian Sea by the Comb Jellyfish Mnemiopsis Leidyi (Ctenophora)
• Trophic cascades triggered by overfishing reveal possible mechanisms of ecosystem regime shifts
• Is the comb jelly really to blame for it all? Mnemiopsis leidyi and the ecological concerns about the Caspian Sea
• Consumption rates and prey preference of the invasive gastropod Rapana venosa in the Northern Adriatic Sea - Mnemiopsis Leidyi appears in this too!
• Effects of Beroe cf ovata on gelatinous and other zooplankton along the Bulgarian Black Sea Coast - Beroe to the rescue?
• Invasion dynamics of the alien ctenophore Mnemiopsis leidyi and its impact on anchovy collapse in the Black Sea - not such a severe threat?
• Climate effects on formation of jellyfish and ctenophore blooms: a review
• Abrupt transitions of the top-down controlled Black Sea pelagic ecosystem during 1960–2000: Evidence for regime-shifts under strong fishery exploitation and nutrient enrichment modulated by climate-induced variations
• The ctenophore Mnemiopsis in native and exotic habitats: U.S. estuaries versus the Black Sea basin - factors that make Mnemiopsis a good invader

Other ecological aspects

• A golden age of gelata: past and future research on planktonic ctenophores and cnidarians
• Feeding ecology and metabolism of the Antarctic cydippid ctenophore Callianira antarctica
• Escape of the ctenophore Mnemiopsis leidyi from the scyphomedusa predator Chrysaora quinquecirrha - turbo ctenophores, Batman!
• Comparative feeding behavior of planktonic ctenophores
• Broad phylogenomic sampling improves resolution of the animal tree of life
• Interactions of pelagic cnidarians and ctenophores with fish: a review
• Predation on pelagic coelenterates: a review - predators and prey; "the ctenophore Haeckelia rubra (Kolliker, 1853) incorporates cnidae from narcomedusan prey into their own tentacles"
• Estimating the predatory impact of gelatinous zooplankton - ctenophores balance ecosystems by preventing copepods from wiping out phytoplankton
• Seasonal Variations in Abundance and Size Composition of the Lobate Ctenophore Bolinopsis Mikado (Moser) in Tokyo Bay, Central Japan - heavy consumers of copepods; controlled by Beroe.
• Predation efficiency in visual and tactile zooplanktivores (Limnol. Oceanogr., 49(1), 2004, 69–75) - As visibility decreases and prey density increases, the competitive efficiency of tactile predators increases (OTOH fish more efficient at low densities in good light)
• Fish predation on neritic ctenophores from the Argentine continental shelf: A neglected food resource?
• Capture mechanisms used by the lobate ctenophore, Mnemiopsis leidyi, preying on the copepod [[Acartia tonsa
• The role of aerobic metabolism and intragel oxygen in hypoxia tolerance of three ctenophores: Pleurobrachia bachei, Bolinopsis infundibulum and Mnemiopsis leidyi (Journal of the Marine Biological Association of the UK (2005), vol 85 issue 3, 627-633, doi:10.1017/S0025315405011550)- tolerate hypoxia well, but not as good as cnidiaria in anoxia

Classification

• textbooks plus phylogeny
• Functional morphology of the tentacles and tentilla of Coeloplana bannworthi (Ctenophora, Platyctenida), an ectosymbiont of Diadema setosum (Echinodermata, Echinoida) - good overall descr, esp of how tentacles work
• A Molecular Phylogenetic Framework for the Phylum Ctenophora Using 18S rRNA Genes (Mircea Podar, Steven H. D. Haddock, Mitchell L. Sogin, and G. Richard Harbison; Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution, Vol. 21, No. 2, pp. 218–230, Nov 2001; doi=10.1006/mpev.2001.1036)

Fossil record

• Raman spectra of a Lower Cambrian ctenophore embryo from southwestern Shaanxi, China
• Middle Cambrian Ctenophores from the Stephen Formation, British Columbia, Canada
• The Cambrian “explosion” of metazoans and molecular biology: would Darwin be satisfied?
• The first fossil ctenophore from the Lower Devonian of West Germany - 1983!
• Fossils and phylogenies: integrating multiple lines of evidence to investigate the origin of early major metazoan lineages
• Eight-armed Ediacara fossil preserved in contrasting taphonomic windows from China and Australia
• Diverse pelagic predators from the Chengjiang Lagerstätte and the establishment of modern-style pelagic ecosystems in the early Cambrian
• Possible Ctenophoran Affinities of the Precambrian "Sea-Pen" Rangea
• Lower Cambrian Vendobionts from China and Early Diploblast Evolution

Evolutionary history

• The Precambrian emergence of animal life: a geobiological perspective
• Animal evolution: the end of the intermediate taxa? (also at [1]) - incl good example of "A traditional phylogenic tree"
• The Fossil Record and the Early Evolution of the Metazoa - "Would you like a game of Metazoan Phylogeny? ..." - also at Google Books
• A Molecular Phylogenetic Framework for the Phylum Ctenophora Using 18S rRNA Genes
• The evolution of multicellularity and early animal genomes
• The Radiata and the evolutionary origins of the bilaterian body plan
• The evolution of metazoan axial properties
• Conflicting phylogenetic signals at the base of the metazoan tree
• Phylogeny of Medusozoa and the evolution of cnidarian life cycles
• Six major steps in animal evolution: are we derived sponge larvae?
• http://www.biology-direct.com/content/2/1/37
• Animal phylogeny and the ancestry of bilaterians: inferences from morphology and 18S rDNA gene sequences
• A simple plan—cnidarians and the origins of developmental mechanisms
• Assembling the Tree of Life p 200ff
• Evolution of striated muscle: Jellyfish and the origin of triploblasty - "As a consequence, diploblasty evolved secondarily in cnidarian larvae and polyps"
• How ancient is the adult swimming capacity in the lineage leading to Euchordates? - argues that the LCA of chordates and poss of bilateria were macropscopic forms that swim with cilia, as ctenophores do.
• The Radiata and the evolutionary origins of the bilaterian body plan

Vision ??

This edit added a sub-section by vision. The source is encyclopedia, not an academic source, and a academic who is an expert on Ctenophora says this idea is not supported by any artcicle know to our exper. So its gone.

A systematic search of ctenophore genomes has turned up two closely-related species that each have ten genes that fit the profile for type II (metazoan or animal) opsins. These are treated as ten genes that each have two variants. Seven turn out to code for bioluminescent cells. Of the remaining three, one shows no signs of any potentiall phototransduction cascade. The other two have been expressed as opsins in vitro, peak sensivity ~500 nm (the two are about 10 nm apart). One has been expressed in vivo through a certain point in the embryonic stage, suggesting a possible expression in apical cilia, possibly in immediate proximitity to a bioluminescent cell. Unfortunately, these animals are very hard to study (some animals can't be bred in captivity). As a result, this research is still tentative. Zyxwv99 (talk) 20:23, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Pleurobranchia or Pleurobrachia

The article has two mentions of Pleurobranchia. Is that correct or should it be Pleurobrachia? Nurg (talk) 07:06, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

You're right, Pleurobranchia was a typo, and I've fixed all cases to Pleurobrachia. Thanks! --Philcha (talk) 10:00, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Pleurobranchaea is a marine mollusc - a nudibranch.Leuckartiara (talk) 05:22, 17 June 2010

Thanks

Leuckartiara, many thanys. --Philcha (talk) 21:08, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

explosive growth

The combination of hermaphroditism and early reproduction enables small populations to grow at an explosive rate.

is it really accurate to say this? An explosive growth rate comes from prolific fecundity. Hermaphroditism would double whatever other population growth rate they have (doubling is not explosive when you consider that some creatures produce 1 egg per period, while others produces 1000s or more), and early reproduction I guess makes the timescale shorter, but measured "generationally" the growth rate would be whatever it otherwise is. Again, these creatures would have explosive growth rates if individuals both produce a zillion fertilized eggs, and if a significant number of offspring live to reproductive age, regardless how long that takes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.174.97.122 (talk) 21:01, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

The mention of pop. growth in the article body cites a source which states "Whereas most medusae grow to adult size before beginning to produce eggs or sperm, ctenophores seem to produce small numbers of gametes before they reach adult size, and thus may have very rapid generation times, resulting in rapid population growth." Obviously growth rate is the ratio of fecundity to generation time, and neither alone is sufficient, wouldn't you agree? But do go ahead and improve the article (the lead generally appears to contain too much material at present). Cesiumfrog (talk) 23:57, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Phylogeny

This article could do a better job of explaining the relationship between Ctenophora and the other four deep taxons of Metazoa: Porifera, Placozoa, Cnidaria, and Bilateria. Everyone agrees that Bilateria and Cnidaria are sister clades, and that they are the most derived of the five. Placozoa is generally thought to occupy a middle position. Until recently, Porifera was thought to be the most basal. Over the years enough evidence has gradually piled up to the point where it's now "too close to call" between Porifera or Ctetophora being the most basal. If Ctetophora is the most basal, then it implies that either neurons evolved twice, or that Porifera and Placozoa lost their's. Thus, the phylogenetic positions of both Perifera and Ctenophora are uncertain. That pretty much sums it up. Mentioning every hypothesis ever described in a research paper is WP:KITCHENSINK. Zyxwv99 (talk) 00:40, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Table needs work

In the section "Distinguishing features" the table entitled "Comparison with other major animal groups" has some issues. The four columns are (from left to right): "Sponges, Cnidarians, Ctenophores, Bilateria." I think the relative positions of Cnidarians and Ctenophores should be reversed, for two reasons: conventional thinking is that the five branches of metazoa are successive plesions: Porifera, Placazoa, Ctenophora, Cnidaria, Bilateria. Also, the close connection between Cnidaria and Bilateria is very widely recognized. What we have now comes close, but would be better if we reversed those two. Also, at some point it would be nice at add Placazoa, since that would give us all five. Zyxwv99 (talk) 01:13, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

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