Talk:Cultural depictions of elephants

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The Waltz of the Elephants

 Unnecessary (not used) 22:15, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
I considered adding the following to 'In music' section, but couldn't find a reference. I know it was/is commonly performed at circuses and you'd know it if you heard it - but am uncertain if the two are synonymous:

• "The Waltz of the Elephants" (La valse des éléphants), sometimes known as "The Elephant's Waltz" is often played during elephant performances at circuses.
  

~E:74.60.29.141 (talk) 20:02, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

The Elephant Man

 Done 22:15, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
I moved the following entry from the article to here. Just because it has "Elephant" in the title, doesn't mean that it has anything to do with an elephant, or a cultural depiction thereof. If someone can come up with a rationale for putting it back, please do so (and explain). ~Thanks, ~E 74.60.29.141 (talk) 22:03, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

• David Lynch's 1980 movie The Elephant Man is based on the life of Joseph Merrick, a British man in Victorian England who was nicknamed "The Elephant Man" due to the nature and extent of his deformities.

Images / Gallery

 Done 22:15, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
The images need to be organized - I'm not sure how this should be done, but with the number of images, the placement doesn't often relate to the text. Some images should be moved to Gallery. (I moved flags, for no particular reason). ~E:74.60.29.141 (talk) 23:50, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
It might be better using this template: {{gallery}}

I think we should limit the images to one or to two examples per section so that it would be cleaner. We could add more images once the text gets fat enough.--Lenticel ^(talk) 06:27, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Agree. For now I'm putting leftover images in Gallery, plus whatever might be useful later - many will eventually be removed. Unfortunately the Hannibal Crossing the Alps fresco is a bad image of a good painting. ~Eric F 74.60.29.141 (talk) 06:49, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

We need to convert the list of examples into prose

 Done 22:15, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
I'm currently making mini lead paragraphs of for the various sections of this article. I think we need to weed out the examples that do not contribute much to the article and shorten the ones that do. --Lenticel ^(talk) 06:21, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

I haven't really examined the organization, but we need to think about how to fit various parts together into some sort of sequence. ~Eric 74.60.29.141 (talk) 06:56, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Outline

Suggested outline should look something like this:
[lead] : A brief summary mentioning each section.

[Section 1] : Brief summary of section 1, mentioning each sub-section.

[subsection 1.1] — Ancient cosmology of India is probably a good place to start - relate it to deities, White Elephant, Erawan, etc

[subsection 1.2 ... etc.] — Relate to modern shrines, festivals, art, etc.

[Section 2] : Brief summary of section 2, mentioning each sub-section. —

• • •

["Other"] : List of leftover stuff, and "See also" links (?)

~E:Modified: 74.60.29.141 (talk) 02:15, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Looks cool. I'm thinking of changing the Politics and Secular heading to something more accommodating. --Lenticel ^(talk) 07:36, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

I modified the secular section of the article and classified it per continent. Some Asia entries may need to be transferred to the religion section though.--Lenticel ^(talk) 07:46, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

It's fine to move it; suggest leaving a brief mention, in order to connect various sections with each other.

Replaced "cleanup" tag with {{Under construction}} template. This way we need not be overly concerned about it temporarily looking messy. ~E:Last modified:74.60.29.141 (talk) 09:15, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Transitions

Segues are a good way to weave examples into narrative prose. If you think of examples not already used, please list them here. For example:

• Circus elephants → Jumbo → (Mrs. Jumbo) & Dumbo, → Pink Elephants on Parade → Seeing pink elephants → Pink elephants & (other elephant idioms and euphemisms), etc...

I made segues at the myth and religion section. Let's see if the narrative is more bound now.--Lenticel ^(talk) 04:45, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Finally finished converting all the lists into prose. I hope that this will make the creation of a more cohesive article easier.--Lenticel ^(talk) 05:35, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

The White Elephant

The story behind the holy Thai white elephant might be interesting. It's from chapter 2 of Vessantara Jataka.

"... This elephant, who was given the name Pacchaya,* was gifted with the supernatural power to make the rain fall." ... "So, eight Brahmins from Kalinga came to Vessantara to beg for his white elephant to make the rain fall in their country. Vessantara acceded to their request and donated the elephant. ..."[1] —[038 - The Sacrifice of Vessantara]

This would justify using the painting: Kalinga Brahmins are Given the White Elephant —and then a mention relating the Flag of Thailand ~E: 09:30, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
 • Pacchaya: properly, padasahi. - Meaning of पादशाही (padasahi) in Marathi: "[a ( P) Granted by, suitable to, pertaining or relating to the Muhammadan kings;]"
I'll work on this a bit (?) Opinons or suggestions? Last modified: ~E:74.60.29.141 (talk) 18:43, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps we should make it as a subsection of the Popular Culture section with a redirect to its parent article. It's interesting that the white elephant has both positive and negative meanings.--Lenticel ^(talk) 00:54, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Tragic depictions?

 Unnecessary (not used) 22:15, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

• Famous elephants whose tragedies influenced popular culture, public media or became popular causes:

Ziggy, zoo elephant confined for nearly 30 years after attacking and nearly killing his keeper. Finally released to a new outdoor facility specifically designed for him.

Chunee, a former theatrical animal whose controversial life and widely publicized death in 1826 became the inspiration for a successful play.

Mary, publicly executed in 1916 following the death of one of her trainers.

Topsy, circus elephant killed by electrocution on January 4, 1903.

Tyke, circus elephant that went on a rampage during a performance in 1994, killing her trainer, injuring others and causing panic before being shot to death by police.

Sources

---

Donald, Diana (2007). A divided nature : the representation of animals in Britain, c.1750-1850. New Haven: Yale University Press. pp. 171–173. ISBN 0300126794.

"Ziggy, Elephant with Issues (In Storage)". RoadsideAmerica.com. Retrieved 11 December 2012.

Joan V. Schroeder. The Day They Hanged an Elephant in East Tennessee Blue Ridge Country. Posted: February 13, 2009.

---

Perhaps there needs to be a sub-section that includes these famous elephants that befell tragedies and became "Cause célèbre". Frankly, I'd rather not include this (the stories are tragic and hard to read, for me at least) - These are "culturally influential" examples, but might not be "Cultural depictions" and could be left out of the article. However, one might argue that the various plays, books, songs, etc. that these incidents inspired reflect "depictions"(?) ~Eric F:74.60.29.141 (talk) 10:30, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
How about listing them in the 'See also' section, under the heading "Culturally influential tragedies involving famous elephants" (?)

Discuss?

I think the depictions themselves (play, art etc.) can be added to the article and the incidents be linked to.--Lenticel ^(talk) 02:54, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Looks like the elephant is more commonly depicted as circus performers in the Americas as opposed to the other continents on which the animal has religious, military and mythological connotations. Perhaps we could expand the section with that in mind.--Lenticel ^(talk) 10:10, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Cave paintings, petroglyphs and rock art

 Done 22:15, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
There are some ancient depictions in cave paintings, etc. Certainly the earliest documented depiction, should be early in article, right? - not sure where to put this, but here are some examples:
Tadrart Acacus (North Africa) - See:[2], and coin derived from same:[3] - See also:[4]

"...during the naturalistic phase, corresponding to the last phase of the Pleistocene epoch (12,000-8000 BC), one sees numerous outline engravings, representing the large mammals of the savannah: elephants, rhinoceros, etc."[5]

• Cave painting by the San people depicting an elephant hunt in South Africa. -
• Just noticed, these categories:

Category:Petroglyphs_of_elephants

Category:Elephants_in_prehistoric_art

~E: 13:37, 11 December 2012 (UTC)Modified:74.60.29.141 (talk) 05:46, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

 Done 22:15, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
Under Construction
For now, some items have been added which will be removed later. Some of them are mainly for reference (See also list, for example). Please don't remove anything just yet. However, any assistance is welcome!  Finding sources is especially needed. Comments and suggestions appreciated. ~Thank you, ~your WP construction crew, : 74.60.29.141 (talk) 06:05, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Elephant in hanzi

Something could be written about the strong role that the elephant character has in the Chinese writing system. --128.214.210.233 (talk) 09:52, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

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Elephant scalp headdress

• ...Ptolemy II, wears tall boots and an elephant-scalp headdress and carries a club. The boots and elephant skin refer to Dionysos and Alexander, who conquered India..."
• It depicts Alexander's head wearing an elephant headdress and is clearly meant to commemorate Alexander's conquests in India."
• It is significant that Demetrios I is shown on his silver coinage as wearing an elephant's scalp symbolizing India.
• Combined with the royal diadem, the horn of Ammon and the aegis of Zeus, the elephant scalp was thought to symbolise domination over Greece, Egypt, Persia, and India. --Kansas Bear (talk) 04:39, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

Brilliant, and thank you, as always. Khirurg (talk) 04:41, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

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