Talk:Currencies of the European Union

Lisbon treaty

The Lisbon Treaty stated that the euro is the official currency of the European Union... Now, what about the other 11 currencies? Insilvis (talk) 17:48, 27 May 2010‎ (UTC)

Section on Cyprus

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Cyprus dispute

thumb|Cypriot €2 coin The island of Cyprus is divided, the de facto state of Northern Cyprus having declared its independence from the de jure state of Cyprus, and the two are separated by a buffer zone. Additionally, the UK has two military bases on the island. When Cyprus switched to the euro, both the South, the buffer zone, and the UK bases switched to the Euro, while the North continued to use the Turkish Lira. However, the euro coins in Cyprus have both Turkish and Greek lettering, and many companies in the North have begun accepting euros, promoting inter-island trade.. The UK military bases also use the Euro.

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JLogan deleted this section. It was actually an expansion of a single sentence the original author had written, which was out of place. It was added because de jure Cyprus only uses the Euro, but the Turkish Lira is the official currency in North Cyprus. The section was added to focus on the issue of the currency, not of the politics of the dispute. It focuses mainly on the currency. I recommend it goes back in. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 16:00, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

If you really want to put it in go ahead, but we really don't need that much detail. The usage is mentioned in the table and elaborated in the note. Quite often on these pages we end up repeating the whole Cyprus dispute matra but it really isn't needed. If people want to know the nitty gritty they can go to the relevant article, and there is plenty on Cypriot adoption of the euro, but it is going off topic here.- _J.Logan`^t: 17:54, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

I agree that it needs to be simple, how would you suggest it be worded? The only way I can see to make it simpler is to just make the distinction between Northern Cyprus and the rest of the island of cyprus (UK bases, republic, buffer). Chipmunkdavis (talk) 18:37, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

It is already worded, in a reference note in the table. That is all that is needed to explain the situation.- _J.Logan`^t: 12:04, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

I actually find that note confusing. The table says Cyprus uses the Turkish Lira, and the note explains nothing. I think attention should be made to the fact that de jure the turkish lira is not used within EU territory. de facto it IS used in cyprus, but then again, that is not de facto EU territory. So looking de jure and de facto the turkish lira is not used in the EU, but it remains in the table. Maybe a footnote instead of a new paragraph? Chipmunkdavis (talk) 21:09, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

that is really something what should be reconsidered, northen cyprus is not a part of EU as long as it is under management of own government read northern cyprus please, note is definitely confusing it says it is not recognised by Cyprus but that does not mean it is part of their state Petrb (talk) 06:29, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

http://ec.europa.eu/cyprus/turkish_community/index_en.htm this may explain why it is EU area Petrb (talk) 06:54, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

The TNRC is considered by the EU and ROC as a military occupation of ROC by Turkey and hence from a legal perspective the entire island of Cyprus iw within the EU. However EU law is suspended there until the issue is resolved. It is entirely considered part of the EU, and this is explained in a note in the article, and this situation is reflected in matters such as the EU elections where seats are accorded to the total cypriot population with TRNC citizens entitled to vote.- _J.Logan`^t: 06:58, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

No. If you say that TRNC isn't recognized that you must also deny the existence of the currency being in use. From your view, it's simply some guy printing money trading with it. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 08:37, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

make a final decision before you make some changes again in the table keep in mind that if you change this it won't be same as number in European Union Petrb (talk) 08:58, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm afraid you're speculation has no bearing on the legal reality. The Turkish Lira is also the currency of Turkey so its validity is undeniable. Further more it is circulated formally and wide spread within an EU member state due to the legal situation described above.- _J.Logan`^t: 18:48, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Hm. So now you're saying the TRNC is a legal entity. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 07:31, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

No, the CURRENCY is as it is the currency of Turkey (the one next to Greece).- _J.Logan`^t: 07:58, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Would you list the Russian rubel (Baltics)? Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 08:13, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Of course not don't be silly, there is no wide spread circulation of it to the exclusion of the main currency. Stop flailing.- _J.Logan`^t: 18:05, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

IMHO the only question is: are there agreements between Turkey and Cyprus that officially regulate the use of the Turkish Lira in Nonthern Cyprus? Posive answer: keep TL on the list. Negative answer: scrap TL from the list. --insilvis (talk) 20:25, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

There is with the North of course, but we;re talking about what is actually happening rather than what is legally acknowledged. THe Swiss Franc doesn't have official agreement in both EU enclaves either but we have to acknowledge that these currencies, Franc and Lira, substitute the euro within EU territory.- _J.Logan`^t: 07:20, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

References

Northern Cyprus

EU laws do not apply in Northern Cyprus (they will when/if the island is reunified, but currently they don't), so why should we list Northern Cyprus regulations (official currency selected by the TRNC government) in a page about the EU?

I think that at most we should mention outside of the table (maybe as a footnote - placed after Cyprus) that Cyprus claims Northern Cyprus as part of its territory and that currently the TRNC government that is controlling this territory made the Turkish lira its official currency. Alinor (talk) 09:32, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Additionally the current wording in the table makes it look like as if Turkish lira is used in the Republic of Cyprus. I will change this - just as temporary measure - until we gather input on the above proposal. Alinor (talk) 09:36, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

It is a matter of physical reality. There is another currency circulating and in full use in a member state instead of the euro. The fact that EU law is officially suspended in that area and there is representation and negotiation with that government shows a recognition on the side of the EU of this state of affairs so it is more than legitimate to clearly list this situation.- _J.Logan`^t: 09:39, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

It should be noted somehow. Every map the EU publishes shows all of Cyprus, and the Turkish Lira is used in a significant part of Cyprus. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 09:43, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

JLogan, there are negotiations, but the current situation is that EU laws do not apply there. This is similar to caribbean islands changing their status from OCT to OMR or vice-versa - in the future they may join/withdraw from the EU, but until that time comes - they are still with their previous status.

I don't suggest that we don't mention TRNC or Turkish lira - I just say that no TRNC regulations have any de jure effect on the EU (or vice versa) - yes, EU/Cyprus blocking trade/people crossing into TRNC territory (or similar actions) may have practical effects on it (or vice-versa), but TRNC laws are not part of any EU member state legislation (and vice versa - EU laws do not apply in TRNC) - and this is true for all policy fields - so, why should the currency be some exception?

If needed, we can clarify this situation in a sub-section (instead of footnote). Alinor (talk) 09:49, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

It is the very fact that EU laws don't apply there, while they are still de jure part of the EU, that leads me to say that the EU is acknowledging that the Turkish Lira is used on its territory. You can add comments and references but I do think that for that reason it should be inside the table. It is after all, a currency used (as a sole currency for the area) inside the EU.- _J.Logan`^t: 12:57, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Does the EU acknowledge formally that the Turkish Lira is used there? It seems to me that it would be more consistent for the EU/ROC side to state that the euro is the official currency of the areas under TRNC control, while recognising that it isn't de facto used there - in the same way as other EU and ROC laws.

The current configuration lists Northern Cyprus as a "state", implying that it is an EU member state. It seems to me that, regardless of the rest of this discussion, this is inaccurate and ought to be changed. Pfainuk talk 13:22, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

"It is after all, a currency used ... inside the EU" - that's the problem - it's not so clear cut. What means "inside the EU"? If it means "inside territory where EU law applies" (Art.52 TEU, Art.355 TFEU), then TRNC isn't inside the EU as Protocl 10 states: "The application of the acquis shall be suspended in those areas of the Republic of Cyprus in which the Government of the Republic of Cyprus does not exercise effective control."

"Turkish lira is used inside the EU" is true only if you want to say "a currency used inside territory that is envisioned to become part of the EU when/if it comes under effective control of the Government of the Republic of Cyprus, a member state signatory of the TEU/TFEU" (thus subject to an uncertain future event) - that's the issue. Turkish lira is official currency of the TRNC and TRNC has no relation to EU treaties. If Republic of Cyprus somehow merges with TRNC - this is another thing, but until that time it can be mentioned at most as "currency used in territory claimed by EU member state", not as "currency used in territory where EU treaties apply". Because currently they don't apply there. Alinor (talk) 14:21, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

This is a list of currencies used within the EU. Northern Cyprus, from the position of every country in the world bar Turkey, is inside the EU. It is merely seen as occupied. That occupation (and hence the existence of the TRNC gov't - but not full diplomatic recognition of course) is acknowledged by the suspension of laws (with no effort made to enforce them over the TRNC) and the existence of talks of opening up trade and provision of aid and representation.

Further more the Turkish lira, as it is the currency of Turkey, is a fully recognised currency that trades openly. It is physically used in northern Cyprus as a day to day currency in place of the euro. Now if you were to forget about the TRNC's position for a second and consider that in isolation, it is clearly still relevant. The list needs to reflect reality then simply make note of the legal situation. The Lira is used exclusively, its use is acknowledged through the suspension of EU law and the currency valid internationally - HOWEVER the Cyprus dispute means the authority that chose to circulate that currency does not have diplomatic recognition and is claimed by another.- _J.Logan`^t: 09:01, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

I ask again - what does it mean "Northern Cyprus is in the EU"? Neither TRNC nor EU/Republic of Cyprus claim that TEU/TFEU apply to Northern Cyprus. According to the EU treaties they do not apply to territories outside of Republic of Cyprus control, e.g. Northern Cyprus.

In summary - Northern Cyprus is not in the EU (unless you have another definition for "in the EU"). The EU may support Republic of Cyprus claims on Northern Cyprus, but this doesn't mean that it's in the EU.

So, it's irrelevant what currency is selected as official by TRNC or what currency is used in Northern Cyprus - because this territory is outside of the territorial scope of TEU/TFEU/EU law. When/if it comes under Republic of Cyprus control and when/if TEU/TFEU are applied there - then the currency utilized there will be relevant for the article. Currently it isn't.

Whether Turkish Lira is "fully recognized currency" is also irrelevant - if TRNC/Northern Cyprus were using USD or North-Cypriot-Pound - the arguments would be the same.

The relevance of the currency used in Northern Cyprus is only this - "a currency used in territory that maybe will become covered by EU law in the future if it comes under control of the EU member state that claims it." - and I don't think this is enough to warrant listing along all the other currency used in territories where EU law really applies currently. Alinor (talk) 09:16, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

27Dec2010 change

Regarding this change in the notes column for Turkish Lira. It was:

• Territory under TRNC control is claimed by the Republic of Cyprus, one of the EU member states.[f1] TL is not issued by any member state. EU law and treaties currently don't apply to Northern Cyprus.[source]; [footnote1: The government in Northern Cyprus (which uses the Turkish currency, rather than the euro) isn't recognised by the Republic of Cyprus (which claims jurisdiction over the whole island) and the European Union. Although usage of the euro is high, it will only formally be replaced once the island is reunified.]

Changed to:

• Northern Cyprus is officially part of the EU but outside of its control. The Turkish lira (issued by Turkey) is used unofficially in place of the euro until the resolution of the Cyprus dispute.[f1]; [footnote1: Northern Cyprus is officially part of the Republic of Cyprus and the European Union but it is under the de facto control of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC). The TRNC is only recognised by one UN member: Turkey. EU law is suspended in the TRNC while negotiations on Cypriot reunification continue. The TRNC use the Turkish lira (Turkey's currency) as its official currency and it is use din day-to-day transactions in place of the euro. Although usage of the euro is high, it will only formally be replaced once the island is reunified.]

I don't agree with the following things in the new variant:

• "Northern Cyprus is officially part of the EU" - what does "part of the EU" mean? If it means "territory where EU law applies" then this is wrong - the EU law does not apply to Northern Cyprus - both de jure and de facto.
• "Northern Cyprus is outside of EU control" - the EU doesn't control territories. EU member states do control territories.
• "Turkish Lira is used unofficially" - no, it is used officially - according to the laws of TRNC that controls Northern Cyprus. The Euro is used unofficially in Northern Cyprus, not the Turkish lira.
• "until the resolution of the Cyprus dispute" - misleading, implies that the "resolution of the Cyprus dispute" is some sure-to-happen event, such as "until 1.1.2011"
• I don't think we need to describe who recognizes who, etc. things in so much detail here. If TRNC position is somehow inferior, only de facto, but not officially, etc. - then why do we bother with the currency the TRNC proclaimed as legal tender?

What's wrong with the initial variant? Alinor (talk) 13:27, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Responding to this and the reply in the above section (why start a new one again?), the situation is essentially one of any break away state. Everyone but Turkey recognises the Republic of Cyprus as the only sovereign body governing the whole of the island of Cyprus. The TRNC, in the eyes of the EU and the UN et al does not exist. The Cypriot and European government is merely unable to exercise its authority effectively in the northern territory. There are loads of territories around the world that have broken away to the extent that central government is ineffective (Abkasia, South Ossetia, Northern Nigeria, Southern Sudan, Chechnya, Somaliland, Nagorno-Karabakh, Transnistria and so on. But we do not say that Transnistria is not part of Moldova because of it. Legally it is, de facto they do not. Do you see? That is why Northern Cyprus doesn't normally appear on official EU maps, because in our eyes it isn't there.- _J.Logan`^t: 22:28, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

I started this as subsection of the above section for clarity and for easier editing.

You responded mostly to the middle bullet above, but what about the first two points?

I understand the logic behind "legally/de jure/officially" vs. "de facto", but have been warned previously that using it is tantamount to taking sides (supporting one POV over the other). "In the eyes" of TRNC (and Turkey) the situation is the opposite. We can't disregard them just because they are only 2 - what will we do in case like Palestine/Kosovo where 107/72 or more states recognize the "de facto" as "de jure"? And a related note - if we are to take this position ("TRNC has no legal authority"), then we shall not pay attention to its acts ("declaring Turkish Lira legal tender in TRNC") and we shall mention Turkish Lira at most as a footnote on Cyprus like "In northern part of the country the Turkish Lira is utilized in day-to-day activities alongside the Euro, because this territory is still outside of Republic of Cyprus government control and is ruled by the TRNC". We can't simultaneously imply that TRNC "isn't there" - and show TRNC currency along the currencies officially used in the EU according to the currency laws of its member states. No EU law or EU member state law stipulates the official use of the Turkish lira.

The problem here is different. As I said above - the EU may support Republic of Cyprus claims, but this doesn't mean that Northern Cyprus is in the EU. The treaties are explicit about that - they don't apply to territory outside of Republic of Cyprus control. That's why I asked - what does "part of the EU" mean? When you speak about a country (Cyprus) you may say that "Northern Cyprus is part of Cyprus" (meaning it's part of it "legally, according to the constitution of Cyprus", e.g. that Cyprus claims it as its own territory - regardless of not having control in the moment). But the EU is not a country - it is defined by the TEU/TFEU (and some other treaties) and the territorial scope of the EU treaties excludes Northern Cyprus.

So, in both cases (if we consider Northern Cyprus to be "in the EU" - and if we don't as stated by the treaties) Turkish lira is not one of the "EU currencies". In the first ("in the EU") case it is just a currency "used in practice" (like USD/EUR in many countries that have another official currency). In the second case ("not in the EU") it is irrelevant, because the topic is "EU currencies" and not "currencies in territories that potentially will apply EU laws in the future" (because then we will have to list USD - used in the BES islands that may become EU OMRs in 2015). Of course a footnote on Cyprus (or a subsection below the table) may explain the situation in detail. Alinor (talk) 06:22, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

First of all, can I ban the sentence "the EU is not a country", the statement is totally meaningless. Second, the EU is composed of its member states, if something is part of a member state, it is part of the EU. The only exemption is certain territories and they are excluded from certain areas of EU law but the difference is TRNC is SUSPENDED. It is like when a member of the AU or OAS is suspended, it is part of it but obligations/rights cease to apply for the duration of a certain issue. An illustration of the issue in the case of Cyprus would be the fact that European Parliament seats are allocated based on the population of the island and TRNC citizens have the official right to vote, even though in practice this is not carried out.

As for sides, in all things we take the overwhelming majority POV. We do not say that Transnistria is a sovereign state now do we? It is harder in the case of Kosovo as it although there is a majority, it is not such a huge dominance of once side. Transnistria is part of Moldova, but there is a breakaway region. Saying that is of course POV, everything we say is POV, but on such issues it is acceptable. To say TRNC is outside ROC/EU then that would be going against a global consensus minus only Turkey and TRNC itself- if it is okay with every other body and media on the planet then I don't think we'll be in trouble.

I do hate long replies, but I shall quickly cover your exact points;

• "Northern Cyprus is officially part of the EU" - what does "part of the EU" mean? If it means "territory where EU law applies" then this is wrong - the EU law does not apply to Northern Cyprus - both de jure and de facto.
• "the EU doesn't control territories. EU member states do control territories". - covered above
• "no, it is used officially - according to the laws of TRNC that controls Northern Cyprus. The Euro is used unofficially in Northern Cyprus, not the Turkish lira." - from the EU/ROC pov but I take your point and we can modify that.
• " misleading, implies that the "resolution of the Cyprus dispute" is some sure-to-happen event, such as "until 1.1.2011"" - No it doesn't, it implies no such time frame.
• "I don't think we need to describe who recognizes who, etc. things in so much detail here. If TRNC position is somehow inferior, only de facto, but not officially, etc. - then why do we bother with the currency the TRNC proclaimed as legal tender?" - We bother because it is reality and you wanted the details explained. It is in a reference so it isn't taking up much space.

- _J.Logan`^t: 09:39, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

" misleading, implies that the "resolution of the Cyprus dispute" is some sure-to-happen event, such as "until 1.1.2011"" - No it doesn't, it implies no such time frame. - it implies that the event (Cyprus unification) is sure-to-happen. The 1.1.2011 timeframe was only for illustrative purposes. Insert 1.1.2012 or another date instead. The problem is that the Cyprus unification is far from sure thing and shouldn't be taken for granted - the impression left by the whole text (it's normal to have this impression, because the text represents the Republic of Cyprus POV).

"the EU is composed of its member states, if something is part of a member state, it is part of the EU." - this may be true for federal states, but it's not true for the EU. The EU is an entity created by the Treaties of the European Union. These treaties have specific territorial scope of application (Art.52 TEU, Art.355 TFEU, some additional protocols/annexes for special provisions - such as for Ceuta and Melilla, Channel islands, UK SBAs, Northern Cyprus, etc.). Anything outside the territorial scope of the treaties can't be implied to be "in the EU" - unless you have another definition for that term. That's what I ask - I understand "in the EU" as "territory where EU treaties (and thus EU legislation) apply". Do you have another definition?

Yes, the wording for Northern Cyprus is "suspended" instead of "excluded" (and this implies that the EU supports Republic of Cyprus claims over Northern Cyprus) - I don't find this so important, but if you want to emphasis this fact I propose the following:

• EU law and treaties application to Northern Cyprus is currently suspended.[source] Its territory is claimed by the Republic of Cyprus, one of the EU member states, but currently Northern Cyprus is under TRNC control.[f1] TL is not issued by any member state [or TL is issued by Turkey].; [footnote1: The government of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (which declared the Turkish lira legal tender in Northern Cyprus) isn't recognised by the Republic of Cyprus (which claims jurisdiction over the whole island) and the European Union. Although usage of the Euro in Northern Cyprus is already high in practice, it will be formally introduced only once the island is reunified.]

But we come again to one of my questions above: if you find suspension of EU law application to (and lack of Republic of Cyprus control of) Northern Cyprus to be a minor technicality (to be over following the unification of the island), then why should we place the 'pseudo/so-called official' currency of a 'secessionist/breakaway region' authorities (e.g. TRNC) in a list of official currencies of authorities recognized by the 'overwhelming majority POV' (e.g. all EU member states).

1. If you agree with me that "EU law suspended"="not in the EU", then the currency is irrelevant for the article (in the same way we don't mention Aruba/Canada/etc. currency, because Arbua/Canada/etc. is not in the EU).
2. If you don't agree with me, but insist that "TRNC, in the eyes of the EU ... does not exist", then TRNC currency is irrelevant for the article (in the same way we don't mention Sealand currency, because in the eyes of the EU and its member states it does not exist) - according to this logic 'Northern Cyprus is part of Republic of Cyprus, official currency in the whole Republic of Cyprus is the Euro - as per the Republic of Cyprus laws, in practice another currency may be used in some parts of its territory, but only unofficially/de facto/in day-to-day activities.'

Of course a footnote/sub-section about Northern Cyprus can be added, because obviously the issue is of interest (at least to you, me and the editors that inserted Turkish lira in the first place).

But we can't simultaneously A] state that "TRNC does not exist/is illegal/is not recognized/etc." and B] represent its acts (i.e. declaring official currency) as equal to those of governments that "exist/are the legally recognized authorities/etc." (e.g. Republic of Cyprus). It is either A] or B]. Alinor (talk) 10:43, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes we can. It is simply a matter that the legal situation conflicts with reality. That is not unusual, it is very simple: The TRNC has control over Northern Cyprus and hence is currency, however its authority to do so is not recognised outside of Turkey. Lets say Corsica declared independence in violation of the French constitution and issued its own currency. Its independence is not recognised by France, the EU or the UN et al. Formally Corsica is part of the EU because the break away Corsican gov't is not recognised, but the EU is unable to exercise authority and therefore the reality is that Corsica does not use the euro. Do you get it?- _J.Logan`^t: 15:03, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Two issues.

You still haven't answered what do you want to say by "in the/part of EU" means. Does it mean "territory where EU treaties (and thus EU legislation) apply" or something else (if so, please define it)?

And, no, we can't have both A] and B]. If you want to treat the TRNC as if it doesn't exist/is illegal/etc. (Republic of Cyprus POV) then you don't take into account legal acts done by TRNC and then you consider the official currency of the whole of Cyprus to be the Euro. Then other currencies used "unofficially" do not get a spot in the "EU currencies" table, but a footnote/sub-section at most. As TRNC government is not even recognized by the EU the legislation adopted by TRNC has no relation to the EU (and vice versa) - thus the TRNC currency is not one of the "EU currencies".

What do you think of the wording proposed in my comment above (bullet paragraph)? Alinor (talk) 15:27, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Fresh start

I think we should move the TRY/TRNC info as text into a separate section/sub-section. Current arrangement is schizophrenic - in the main table we either list all currencies, both official legal tender and privately used (and unless somebody comes up with a acceptable criteria the privately used include all of the List of circulating currencies) - or only the official legal tenders. In addition we have to agree whether we should consider Northern Cyprus in the first place (EU law application there is suspended by the treaties of the EU until it comes under control of the Republic of Cyprus, EU member Cyprus and EU itself do not recognize TRNC that controls Northern Cyprus currently, including official legal tender there):

• What type of currencies we list - official legal tender only or official legal tender and privately used?
  • Official legal tender only. Then:
    • Northern Cyprus coverage suspension is disregarded, because potentially it maybe will come under control of the Republic of Cyprus - Euro is the official legal tender of Cyprus, the EU member. No TRY here.
    • Northern Cyprus coverage suspension is not disregarded - unless EU law is applied there we don't consider it at all (as we do for the other special territories where it doesn't apply that use various different currencies such as ANG, USD, XPF and others). No TRY here.
  • Official legal tender and privately used. Then:
    • Northern Cyprus coverage suspension is disregarded, because potentially it maybe will come under control of the Republic of Cyprus - Euro is the official legal tender of Cyprus, the EU member. TRY and most of the List of circulating currencies are used in private transactions unrelated to the Government of the Republic of Cyprus law on official legal tender.
    • Northern Cyprus coverage suspension is not disregarded - unless EU law is applied there we don't consider it at all (as we do for the other special territories where it doesn't apply that use various different currencies such as ANG, USD, XPF and others). List of circulating currencies (including TRY) are used in private transactions unrelated to the Government of the Republic of Cyprus law on official legal tender.

There is no option where of all privately used currencies we mention only one, the TRY. What makes TRY different from the rest is that it is the official legal tender of the TRNC. But TRNC is recognized neither by the EU nor by its member states - so its decisions about official legal tender are unrelated to the EU and are not "decisions in the EU" or "decisions of the EU".

So, we either list TRY and all List of circulating currencies or we list only the official legal tenders of the EU states and territories - and TRY is not one of these. Alinor (talk) 12:08, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Oh whatever then. I've wasted too much of my life talking to walls on Wikipedia talk pages. Do what you want, I'm taking this off my watchlist.- _J.Logan`^t: 20:50, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Rename to "Currencies in the EU"

There is only one currency that is under control and issued by the EU. This is the Euro. Other currencies may be legal tender IN parts of the EU, but they are not currencies OF the EU. Therefore I suggest to rename this article to "

Currencies in the European Union" or "

Currencies in use in the European Union" Arnoutf (talk) 18:03, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

I disagree. Of does not indicate ownership by the EU and to a certain extent it is how you define the EU (i.e. something beyond merely institutions and or the extent to which it is the sum of its member states). Indeed, this is a similar point to "Economy of the European Union" which clearly falls in the end to the of.- _J.Logan`^t: 19:53, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

I don't think that such change is needed or that it changes the meaning. Strictly speaking both "in the EU" and "of the EU" would result in a single currency - the Euro. All other currencies are unrelated to the EU. They are currencies of EU member states, but not everything in EU member states is related to the EU - on the contrary - the things related to the EU are strictly defined in the treaties, etc.

Regardless if we use "in the EU" or "of the EU" the question is "what is the EU?" - we need to have an answer to that question in order to know what to list.

The answer - there are Treaties of the European Union, secondary EU law based on them and Institutions of the European Union that implement these. That "is the EU". Territorially that means - the area where EU law applies - described primarily in Art.52 and Art.355. The result - 27 members states including some, but not all of their special territories. Alinor (talk) 11:36, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Greek return to drachma?

There is speculation that, due to Greece's change in direction rejecting the Merkel austerity deal, that they may end up bailing on the Euro and returning to their own separately-floating currency (in order to print money to help cover debts). E.g.: [1]. Perhaps this would be worth a discussion or mention. - Keith D. Tyler ¶ 17:32, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

New page

If anyone is interested, I am creating a new list in my sandbox which covers all current European currencies. All contributions are appreciated (except vandalism...). Thanks, Matty.007 13:15, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Brexit

This article and it’s maps will need to be updated after Friday due to the United Kingdom’s withdrawal from the European Union. (2A02:C7F:5622:2000:2555:CAE0:8644:398F (talk) 10:24, 26 January 2020 (UTC))