Talk:D'Israeli (cartoonist)

Calligrapher - really?

I see this page has just been categorized as belonging to 'British calligraphers'. Is there not a category for 'British letterers'? Calligraphy is surely something rather different than the commercial skill of lettering a comic strip (which may nowadays be done by computer more than by hand). Shouldn't D either be cagtegoried under 'Comic book letterers' or under a (new) category of 'British comic book letterers'? Jenniscott (talk) 16:10, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, I have tracked down Category:Comic book letterers (underused?) & got shot of all the British examples to there, adding it as a sub to the main calligraphers, as it technically counts I suppose. Calligraphy is not required to be amateur - far from it. Johnbod (talk) 21:05, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Good catch. Note the Eagle Awards have a letterer award so I have dropped a few more names from the 2007 nominations (and winner) into that category. (Emperor (talk) 22:27, 18 June 2008 (UTC))

Johnbod, I didn't mean to imply that calligraphers must be amateur, if that's what you took from my comment... but I did mean that it's normally seen as more artistic than it is commercial in nature. Possibly just my assumption mind you! Sounds like Category:Comic book letterers is a go-er - it did seem pretty underused when I looked at it, yes. Jenniscott (talk) 11:26, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

The category note links to letterer, which has a long list of them which has many more bluelinks not in the cat yet, if anyone feels keen .... Johnbod (talk) 13:00, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Bluelinks done, though I'm slightly uncertain about the scope of the term 'letterer'. To me, if someone does the job of lettering in a traditional comic book setup with pencils, inker, colourist, letterer - that's crystal clear. If they letter someone else's work where that other person may have taken on more than one of the mentioned roles, that's also clear. If someone letters their own work, that veers into cartooning territory to me, in which case it's hardly worth separating out the lettering role from the rest of the design and artwork. Not that I would push it, but in case anyone thinks it's worth being narrower about how this category is applied. Jenniscott (talk) 20:03, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Shouldn't D'Israeli link to Benjamin Disraeli? =

I find it unlikely that anyone would really be looking for this guy. At the very least it should be a disambiguation page. 63.107.91.99 (talk) 19:28, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

There's a note at the top of the page for disambiguation. To find D'Israeli instead of Benjamin Disraeli one would have to forget the Victorian PM's first name and mis-spell his second, and even then there's assistance to find the man you were looking for. Ewen (talk) 17:20, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

I disagree. People often try to find famous people - Prime Ministers, Presidents, authors, what have you - using their last names, arguably more so than their full names (probably more so now with the predictive search, which wasn't around in 2010). Considering the common English spelling of names like these with a capital d followed by an apostrophe, it's not much of a stretch to assume a fair amount of people would make the mistake of writing D'Israeli instead of Disraeli and finding this much, much less well known person. I think it would be better to direct D'Israeli to a disambiguation page and place both this D'Israeli and the Prime Minister as the two topmost and most prominent links. 91.182.253.145 (talk) 20:47, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Ewen. Who on earth would misspell Benjamin Disraeli D'Israeli? Also, I despair at the comments "I find it unlikely that anyone would really be looking for this guy" and "this much, much less well known person". Are you completely uncultured? Active agent (talk) 14:57, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

He did himself. In ictu oculi (talk) 22:03, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Biography

Where did he start work - surely he did thngs before Mister X ? Any idea how old he is ? -- Beardo (talk) 16:46, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Requested move 15 December 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. There is a consensus for moving to the disambiguated title. However, there is no agreement on where the plain D'Israeli title should redirect - to D'Israeli (cartoonist), Benjamin Disraeli, or Disraeli (disambiguation). Further discussion may be required on this point. (non-admin closure) Bradv 13:51, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

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D'Israeli → D'Israeli (cartoonist) – D'Israeli should redirect to Benjamin Disraeli as a very likely {{R from alternative spelling}}, given that Disraeli already does. The subject of this article does not sufficiently qualify WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, and it should be noted that Disraeli the Prime Minister had been born with the apostrophe in his last name. Indeed, "Benjamin" AND "D'Israeli" renders nearly 18,000 results through a Google Books search; that is quite a considerable number. To conflate the long-term significance of one of the most respected British leaders of all time with a latter-day cartoonist is one thing, but to have this article titled the way it presently is with a hatnote is just irresponsible. --Nevé–selbert 15:15, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

• Support the historical Disraeli is often called "D'Israeli" in documents of the period and since. In ictu oculi (talk) 21:53, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
• Support as per In ictu oculi. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:08, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose. No one's contesting that Benjamin Disraeli was known as Benjamin D'Israeli for his early life (and called that by his opponents for much longer), the question is what the reader is looking for. If readers are landing here in large numbers looking for the prime minister then that's a problem. Looking at the pageviews of this page and the Disraeli disambiguation page over the last year, I think it's fair to say that not many people are landing here at all. If you add Benjamin Disraeli, both pages are comparative noise. We don't have session-based analytics so we can't know sure, but I find it persuasive that the hits to this article far outpace the hits to the disambiguation page. We can't control for other reasons why someone might visit that disambiguation page, but this is the only page, aside from Benjamin Disraeli itself, which links to it directly. If people were coming here looking for the Prime Minister you wouldn't expect the hits to this page to outpace the hits to the disambiguation page. As far as WP:PTOPIC, Benjamin Disraeli went down in history either without the apostrophe or as Lord Beaconsfield. Anyone using the apostrophe today is probably looking for the cartoonist. Mackensen (talk) 22:20, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

I can't see how we can know that. We can say that anyone who sees (cartoonist) in a drop down menu is looking for the cartoonist. But I would be inclined to type and link D'Israeli, I didn't realize until this discussion that the prime minister had dropped the apostrophe in later life. So it isn't "anyone" it's anyone interested in cartoons maybe. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:00, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

Do you think your use case is representative? The comparative page views suggest that it isn't. Mackensen (talk) 13:31, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

• Oppose. As Mackensen ably demonstrates, only a relative handful of readers looking for the PM land on this article by mistake. Qualifiers in titles should be avoided unless truly necessary. But just for good measure, I've added the PM directly to the hatnote, so anyone looking for him can skip the dab page. Station1 (talk) 02:58, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
• Support because he was often called that at the time. Rjensen (talk) 07:29, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
• I support the move, but D'Israeli should be converted to a disambiguation article listing Benjamin Disraeli, this cartoonist, and also (not least) Benjamin's father Isaac D'Israeli, whose name is always spelt in the apostrophized fashion and was a noted litterateur in his own right. Isaac gets about 34 pageviews/day, compared with the cartoonist's 12 or so (before this discussion). The list should also include the other articles listed at Disraeli_(disambiguation).--Smerus (talk) 08:31, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
• Support move and redirect per nom. The primary topic for "D'Israeli" is most certainly the Prime Minister.  ONR  (talk)  12:29, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
• Support the move and the redirect. Bertdrunk (talk) 03:58, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose – as explained above, this seems to be aimed at fixing a non-problem. As Smerus says, if D'Israeli were to become a disambig page, then this might be a supportable part of that. Dicklyon (talk) 04:05, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
• Support. "D'Israeli" and "Disraeli" are interchangeable spellings, both well used. Historical significance is far more important than recent page view stats. D'Israeli could well be converted to a disambiguation page. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 14:16, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
• Oppose per Mackensen. Current setup is fine. SSTflyer 04:06, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

D'Israeli redirect

There is a discussion at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 January 4#D'Israeli regarding the D'Israeli redirect. Interested editors are invited to participate there. Bradv 02:23, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

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