Talk:D'Oyly Carte Opera Company/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: María (habla conmigo) 12:49, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Hello, I'll begin the review shortly. From quick glance, however, I see this will be an easy pass; it fulfills the GA criteria and nothing really jumps out at me. Suggestions and comments for future improvement will follow. :) María (habla conmigo) 12:49, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Lead

• In the image caption, "Theatre poster" sounds strange to me; obviously it's theatre, so should it be publicity poster instead? Also, you may want to consider adding the date for that particular production (file description says 1919).
• The opening sentence is quite a mouthful. Can it be broken up into two?
• The Times wrote of "the company's unique performance style, which may be summarised as a combination of good taste and good fun". -- This quote is great, but it doesn't appear anywhere else in the article. Some may see this as an issue with WP:LEAD.
• The company also mounted productions on tour, in the British provinces, in New York and elsewhere, usually running several companies simultaneously. -- The phrasing is a little off here, I think. Perhaps it's the repetition of "in": "on tour, in the British provinces, New York, and elsewhere, usually..."?
• Upon Helen's death, Carte's son Rupert D'Oyly Carte inherited the company and, beginning in 1919, he mounted new seasons in London with new set and costume designs, while continuing to tour the British provinces during the rest of the year, and eventually adding foreign tours. -- Overlong. End first sentence after "inherited the company"?
• Carte ran the company until his death in 1948. He redesigned the Savoy Theatre in 1928, and he sponsored a series of recordings over the years that helped to keep the operas popular. -- First he's dead, then he jumps back in time twenty years, now he's designing the Savoy! :) Can the chronology be fixed here?
• The company continued to tour continuously, record and play London seasons of Gilbert and Sullivan. -- "continued to tour continuously" is redundant, and breaks up the flow of "tour, record and play"; just drop the "continuously".
• A new D'Oyly Carte Opera Company, formed in 1988 with a legacy left by Bridget D'Oyly Carte. It toured (although not continuously)... -- The comma confused me; without it, the first sentence is complete, but with it you can combine the second sentence beginning "it toured".
• The lead is a great run-down of the chronology, but nothing is mentioned of the principle performers or pop culture references, both of which are later sections. At five paragraphs, it's long already, but it really should summarize the entire article. Also, it would be great if more attention were paid to the company's legacy -- bringing G&S to the masses, correct?

Beginnings

• On tour in 1871, Carte had conducted Sullivan's one-act comic opera Cox and Box, in which the composer's brother Fred played Cox,[8] and in 1874, Cox and Box had received a London revival. -- Is it important to note Fred's role here? It seems tangential. The part after the ref is repetitive; no need to repeat the opera's name. "received a London revival in 1874"?
• Now Carte remembered Gilbert's libretto and suggested to Gilbert that Sullivan write the music for Trial. -- Now? Early 1875, yeah, but I'm not sure "now" is the best way to jump back to the "present".
• The witty and very English little piece proved even more popular... -- This wording is so cute, but how does one define "very English"?
• Lenoir was well-educated and had a grasp of detail and diplomacy and an organisational ability and business acumen that surpassed even Carte's. -- Repetition of "and"s here. ", having a great grasp of detail and diplomacy as well as an organizational..."?
• stayed with the company for almost 15 years as the company became tight-knit: "We are all a very happy family." -- "company... company" redundancy. Also, who said the quote?

Pinafore to Patience

• Business for the opera was slow at first, generally ascribed to a heat wave that made the Opera Comique particularly uncomfortable. -- Correlation is missing here; "The opera's initial slow business is/was generally ascribed to..."?
• Over 150 unauthorised productions sprang up in America alone, but because American law then offered no copyright protection to foreigners. -- Uncompleted thought, or lost correlation? I'm guessing the "but" is imply out of place here.

Don't you mean "impishly out of place"?  ;-) -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:42, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Imply, simply... same difference. :p María (habla conmigo) 17:01, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

• Carte travelled to New York with Gilbert, Sullivan and the company to present an "authentic" production of Pinafore there, beginning in December 1879, as well as American tours. -- "as well as American tours" seems tacked on here.
• From the beginning, the D'Oyly Carte Opera Company established strict rules for its actors and, particularly, its actresses, to avoid any hint of scandal such as performers were known for, or accused of, in other companies. -- Many interjections in here, which slow down the flow. Clean-up, perhaps changing to "for its actors, particularly its actresses, to avoid...." Also, is the distinction between "known for, or accused of" truly needed? One or the other, perhaps?
• As Jessie Bond described these rules in her autobiography: -- Remove "as" or "these rules". Using both is overkill.

Iolanthe to Gondoliers

• But he soon felt trapped.[78] Gilbert scholar Andrew Crowther comments, regarding the agreement: -- Somewhat messy, beginning a sentence with "But" and all. How about rephrasing as such: "He soon felt trapped by the agreement, [however,] as Gilbert scholar Andrew Crowther comments"?

The Carpet Quarrel and the end of the partnership

• but no other operas shared Carte's new opera house, and so the opera house soon failed.[2] Carte sold the opera house... -- Any other word to describe "opera house"?
• Image caption: "Grossmith comforts Carte after failure of The Grand Duke" -- worth noting where this was printed.

Early 20th century

• Except for Ruddigore, which underwent some cuts and was given a new overture in 1920 (and Cox and Box, which was made into a short curtain raiser)... -- The parenthetical statement is misplaced; except for Ruddigore AND Cox and Box, the productions stayed pretty much the same, but because Cox is such a minor work, is it worth mentioning its changes, when it slows down the sentence so much as is?
• He also allowed some restaging of the operas. In an interview in The Observer in August 1919, he set out his policy for staging the operas: -- "operas ... operas".
• The smaller company was disbanded in 1927, although the company often ran multiple tours simultaneously. -- "company... company"; although I'm guessing the second use of "company" means the main one, differentiation still needed.

The new Savoy Theatre

• The Mikado (1952 – settings only, most of the celebrated Charles Ricketts costumes being retained), Patience (1957), The Gondoliers (1958), Trial by Jury (1959), H.M.S. Pinafore (1961; new ladies' costumes) -- spaced en dash or semi-colon for the parenthetical statements?
• In the 1960s, also, the company took five North American tours. The "also" seems random, and this sentence out of place. Reword ("Throughout the 1960s, the company..."?) and perhaps move higher up in the paragraph, near the beginning of 60s events?
• visited Rome in 1974 and took its last American tours in 1976 and 1978. Its last tour was the successful 1979 tour of Australasia -- "tour" repetition.
• Soprano Cynthia Morey ascribed the strong affection that artists had for the company to "the unique family atmosphere engendered by the company's direct descent from its creators, Gilbert, Sullivan ... Richard D'Oyly Carte, followed by his widow, Helen, his son Rupert, and finally his granddaughter Bridget. -- Where does the quote end here?

Closing of the old company; A new company

• The section heading: incorrect usage of a semi-colon (although I understand its intended use here), and it seems like two headings smooshed together. One or the other?
• Image caption: Planter in front of the Savoy Hotel is okay, but I see in very, very fine print that it's in honor of D'Oyly Carte himself; perhaps this can be noted in the caption, since it's not easily read.

Misc.

• I fixed some dashes using a script, and made minor fixes throughout; please do fix to make sure I didn't mess up anything.
• All images check out fine, are in the PD and are tagged correctly.
• Some of the works listed under "References" are missing publisher cities.

Sorry, which ones? I took a look and it seemed like they all had publisher info. I'll also check the "notes" section. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:44, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Bradley (2), Jacobs, Jones, Stedman... I think that's all. I know that repeating Oxford for Oxford Uni Press seems repetitive, but seeing as how there is more than one possible location (also one in NY), the city should really be listed for each Oxford Uni Press publication. María (habla conmigo) 17:01, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

That's it, really; mainly minor prose issues/suggestions -- mostly suggestions. I'll go ahead and promote this to GA, seeing as how it meets the criteria, and my niggling shouldn't hold it back. Congrats! The article is in great shape, and I think it will make a fine FA. Please do let me know when it gets to FAC. :) María (habla conmigo) 16:36, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, Maria. These are super comments. I have made changes throughout the document to address them, and I have asked TR to double check. All the best! -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:41, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

You're very welcome, and great work! María (habla conmigo) 17:01, 16 July 2010 (UTC)