Talk:DC Universe Online/Archive 1

Archive 1

Online Play?

I wonder if it will have free online play or not... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.190.133.144 (talk) 13:00, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

BalramRules: (PSN ID: BalramRules) I think it'll be like Runescape like it'll be free but for extra benefits you must pay £2.50 monthly or something for extra member benefits. I hope it'll have recent updates atleast weekly/fortnightly and will hold extra upgrades, updates and add-ons on special occasions like Christmas and Judgement Day (lol, only messing). I hope we can have clans so we can choose an option where all people in the clan who gain experience points have it shared throughout the clan and we can talk with a bluetooth headset throughout the clan and there is a 32 people limit between each clan so it doesn't get messy with the entire world in one clan. I've even posted this on Gamespot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Balram Rules (talk • contribs) 16:43, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Now I think it's going to be pay monthly, as Lego Universe is pay monthly and NetDevil and SOE are like the BEST MMO Producers excluding Jagex of course. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Balram Rules (talk • contribs) 19:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

360 Version?

Earlier announcements had this set for a 360 release also, was this cut? 66.57.20.114 (talk) 19:28, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I know I read somewhere it's PS3 exclusive, but I can't seem to find it right now--  Darth Mike  _{(Talk • Contribs)} 09:22, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, since the game is done by Sony, I highly doubt that the game will be released on 360. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KidKon (talk • contribs) 16:25, 27 July 2008 (UTC) Well it's obvious the 360 release isn't happening, I was just wondering how far along the line did they stop? Because from the very first announcement the game was supposed to be 360/PS3/PC —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.57.20.114 (talk) 18:46, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

So is everyone playing this game going to running around as an actual, established character in the DC universe? That seems kind of...lame. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.8.175.232 (talk) 18:13, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

No, there will be people playing established characters, though I think that they'll all be played by staff. You get to make your own character for the game -130.113.38.112 (talk) 21:45, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Screw that, it's a CoH/CoV clone. Lame. And us 360 owners get the shaft. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.168.207.165 (talk) 21:09, 13 September 2008 (UTC) It may be a clone but its going to not be a big shit strom, most likly be way better than Coh/CoV sense both games sucked badly. And ofcourse 360 gets the shaft, why would sony give microsoft the rights to have a game they aren't helping make. Well before Sony's involvement it was supposed to be on 360. Sony needs some exclusives. 66.57.20.114 (talk) 21:20, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Well the 360 has it's own version of DC Online. Marvel Universe Online so yeah go complain there 360 owners. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.25.79.15 (talk) 17:53, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't think Xbox owners should hold their breath for MU Online if you read about it. 86.31.202.200 (talk) 12:55, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

360 version confirmed as of 1 Feb 11, coming in "Q4 2011". Im pissed i bought for PS3 now... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.3.21.68 (talk) 15:56, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Confirmed Characters

Where has the list of confirmed characters come from? Characters like Giganta and Blue Snowman I haven't seen any confirmation of... Nyssie (talk) 05:56, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Is Rorschach really appearing? It seems unlikely considering that Watchmen is not part of the main DC Comics universe.

Komodo ninja (talk) 01:28, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Yep. --Chimp Pant (talk) 08:45, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah I heard he was goin to be in it Bosco (talk) 09:24, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Where's the proof that Rorschach is in it? cause that's a huge stretch

I have also herd that Rorschach would be in it. However, he may not be. And $14.99 per month? No way in Hell em I going to be able to play this. Siamesehare (talk) 23:14, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Where was Lobo confirmed??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.163.74.195 (talk) 19:29, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Lobo? THE Lobo?

What's with the confirmed characters? Are those characters the ones that we cannot play with or the only ones that we can play with? Also, are there going to be any races, classes etc.? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.29.144.190 (talk) 22:49, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

You cannot play as them. They appear in the game but you create your own character. --Vale Dator (talk) 22:01, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Can people please only add characters already put into the game? Concept art of them is not enough, as it does not confirm that they will make it all the way into the game. It doesn't matter if the characters actually appear or if they are only voiced like Amanda Waller or Vicki Vale, as long as they are already in the game. Do not include characters that have been announced for upcoming updates but are not in yet, like General Zod or Guy Gardner. Add them in once they are already there. If you dislike that, then add upcoming characters but only after they have a confirmed time to put them in, like the two characters mentioned (Update 4 and the Fight for the Light expansion respectively). Do not put in characters like Livewire who haven't even been touched on. Mad Hatter really shouldn't be in there either despite the amount of publicity they gave him, as he isn't really in the game, but he appears in one of the Headline so he gets a (very shaky) free pass. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.167.231.245 (talk) 12:11, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Release Date?

Do we have a confirmation that the release date is indeed May 12th in 2010? Until this can be proven, I removing the date and changing it back to TBA. -- Kazeoto (talk) 07:33, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

What Influence?

There is a line near the beginning that makes no sense.

"DC Universe Online is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) set in the DC Universe. SOE hopes to make a different kind of MMORPG, with being cited as one of the main inspirations for gameplay. SOE is working to make DC Universe Online more interactive than standard MMORPGs, while trying to keep key elements of RPGs, which include a leveling system and inventories."

Clearly a word, or phrase, and a reference have been removed or forgotten. I have added citation needed tag for this. Can someone swiftly clean this up, as I have no idea what is being referred to as being cited as a main inspiration.64.222.94.132 (talk) 14:51, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I just rolled this back to an older edit. The missing phrase was the title Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction. Someone vandalised this by changing it to the name of a British TV chef, and instead of simply looking back at the previous edit, several individuals changed this by deleting the name, putting it back, replacing it with three question marks, then deleting those. Seriously, people, if you see something wrong, use the history to find what's been changed, and change it back. That's what the history is for. 98.211.124.111 (talk) 22:52, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Editions?

According to Amazon.com there is two different editions. A hero and a villian. 24.7.18.53 (talk) 23:31, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

There's a standard edition, and a Collector's Edition, which costs costs more, but comes with some extra goodies, including a statue of Batman. Chris F (talk) 22:27, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

List of Power Frameworks

Not sure if this should be mentioned but we all ready have a confirmed nature framework consisting of weather, plants and earth control. Should this article include a brief list of confirmed powers?

Also, in the gameplay section shouldn't it detail how the power system works, like the power sources mentioned.--92.237.85.10 (talk) 21:31, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

I would suggest that a list of powers be placed in a new section called Character Creation, or similar. Known power frameworks are Fire, Ice, Nature, Sorcery, Gadgets, and Mental. Each framework will have two branches. For example, the Mental framework has the branches Telepathy and Telekinesis.

Character creation will also give players the ability to select a character's movement ability (from speed, acrobatics, or flight), weapon/fighting style (energy bolts, martial arts, double-handed weapons, and others), mentor (Superman/Luthor, Batman/Joker, Wonder Woman/Circe). Mentor choice determines a character's starting location and early missions, as well as which endgame "iconic armor" you can receive. Character create also lets a player set his or her character's basic personality, which affects what the character's emotes look like.Chris F (talk) 22:18, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Coming out in November

Check http://ps3.ign.com/articles/109/1093790p1.html for confirmation and gametrailers.com for video confirmation from creative director. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.202.146.218 (talk) 20:31, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Super Wonder Woman

Near the bottom of the article, I saw this line: "Gina Torres as Wonder Woman (Previously playing her evil counterpart, Superwoman in the movie Justice League: Crisis on Two Earths)". Technically, I think this is incorrect. She was clearly her evil counterpart in the comic on which the movie was based, but I think in the movie it was changed and the implication was that Superwoman was supposed to be the evil Mary Marvel. I'm not entirely sure how valid this is, and I'm too lazy to actually check, so I thought I should say something here rather than go ahead and edit the article. So yeah. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.184.240.226 (talk) 22:24, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Copyright violation

until consensus can agree that the article is no longer a copyright violation (this means writing the article from scratch in our own words using the sources as sources, not copy and pasting from them), the copy tag stays, no one remove it--Lerdthenerd (talk) 12:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

ignore previous comment, just delete the offending paragraph no need to blank the article--Lerdthenerd (talk) 14:33, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Lerd, the only copyvio was a single added paragraph. That does not require blanking the whole article, just fixing the violation. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 13:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

When I blanked the entire page I was following policy. In the future, I will just remove the section. I suggest the wording in the policy I linked to gets changed though.--Rockfang (talk) 17:12, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

I just tweaked the wording to better agree with WP:CP#Instructions. Hopefully, that will take care of the issue. Thanks for pointing out the inconsistency. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:11, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Monthly payments?

Is this like that other online game World of war somthing where you pay monthly payments. 188.222.227.22 (talk) 01:28, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

No, it will be free to pay if you have PSN+ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.51.128.20 (talk) 13:13, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Kevin Conroy IS IN THIS GAME

I don't know why, but Kevin Conroy is frequently being removed from the list despite a source which has been LINKED IN THIS PAGE confirming his presence alongside Mark Hamill, and the fact there is recorded footage of him doing voice work for it. Please stop obstructing our quest for completeness. Thank you. For a more knowledgeable and relaxed Wikipedia- Nemesis646 (talk) 11:46, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Though I have not made any of the additions or reversions, I think the problems are: the citation that Nemesis646 mentions is not cited in that section, and the one citation I see listed is in Spanish (which I do not speak). I am going to put back Kevin Conroy and copy the already used (elsewhere in the article) citation. If I do this citation wrong (due to the language issue) please feel free to correct.Caidh (talk) 23:50, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

"Gameplay" Section

As it is, the Gameplay section appears to be a list of random content in the game. Oughtn't it describe how the game is played, such as how combat works?Chris F (talk) 16:43, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Agreed - it definitely should. I'm not sure how much information is available. If there are any who can contribute to this section (without violating some sort of non disclosure agreements), it would be appreciated.Caidh (talk) 18:40, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

The NDA was lifted on 12/6. I modified the Gameplay and Storyline sections extensively, but the new info is based on my experiences in the beta; there ARE no third-party sources for this stuff yet. As these begin to appear, I hope others will help add them to support the text, and make edits as necessary to cover subsequent changes during final closed beta and open beta. 71.200.134.47 (talk) 21:27, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Reviews

Shouldn't there be a reviews section by this point? --Skyrocket 11:31 1-16-11

Right now we are only seeing user reviews rather than those from major review sites. This section should be up after those bigger veviews become available, but following comvention mostly likely named "Reception" instead. Zhanzhao (talk) 10:30, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Earth considers Australia a HA-HA Zone.

This PS3 game is $14.95 for 30 days USA, $19.95 for 30 days for AUSTRALIA. Currently $14.95 USD Converted to $19.95 AUD = $15.03. Why then are Australians being charged $4.92 more?

Also - there will be only USA and EUROPEAN servers? The game has already been released in America and in Australia its not out until the 20th - what happens when we PAY MORE for our subscription and join a EURO based served starting at level 1 and all the other hundreds of thousands of PVP players will be level 30 and maxed out?

Is DCUO really just a big F*** You to All of Australia? The Game is costing $59.99 USD from EBGAMES.COM , and its costing $98 Australian dollars. USD $59.99 converted into australian money is $60.31.

So the cold hard facts.

1) Australia is getting NO servers for our country 2) Our subscriptions at current EARTH exchange rate are alot more inflated than they should be, how is this fair seeing as we dont even have our own servers? 3) Australia gets the game on the 20th, a full 9 days after hundreds of thousands of other EARTHLINGS have maxed their characters, up to 6 characters. We will enter the battle on the 20th being very underpowered. 4) The game in Australia should only cost $60.31 based on USD $59.99 being converted. Why is Australia paying nearly $39 more for a game we get 9 days after the USA and without dedicated servers?

Please, this game is already out in the world. Surely someone out of the 6 billion EARTHLINGS could have written more info in this article by now.

Honestly - With the 4 points I have just listed, can i get any answers at all besides the regular "haha Australia sucks"... as I raise very valid points. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.76.255.211 (talk) 11:32, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, Australia does suck. Also, do you not consider yourself from Earth? Is this an Australian thing or are you just weird? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.51.128.20 (talk) 14:25, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

This is not the place for a discussion of the economics of the game (nor is it a place for jokes about the discussion). You can list the price differences but not with commentary/analysis of such. If there is a reliable source (such as Australian press/gaming press) which is covering the issue, then perhaps more can be included and cited.Caidh (talk) 16:24, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

--- FURTHER UPDATE TO "Earth considers Australia a HA-HA Zone" --- USD - $143.99 for 6 months. USD $143.99 = AU $144.34 at current EARTH exchange rate. So there is a HUGE difference for paying for this game in our part of the world with a country of just under 30 million people - we have to pay more and NO DEDICATED SERVERS? Is this because Australia secretly avoided the EARTH CREDIT CRISIS and Americans "ASSume" Australia can afford this?

UK - 49.99 pounds = AU $79.96. The UK pays LESS and they get DEDICATED servers? Is it because Australia is ahead in timezone on planet EARTH i mean, right now I'm typing this at 10:26am and its Wednesday Morning. I guarantee its either 3pm or 5pm in the USA, YESTERDAY ON TUESDAY !

So, USA and UK - pay very low costs. AUSTRALIA pays very HIGH costs for no server dedication and a game that already has hundreds of thousands of MAXED out created characters. --- And Further NEWS - I just called up my local EB GAMES - They have advised me the game may be delayed until NEXT THURSDAY, the 27/01/11.

Also - with retaliation to ip address 114.76.255.211 - Yes i do consider myself a part of EARTH - I felt so involved by the planets advertising of DCUO - "WORLD" "WIDE" release. Of course, the word "WORLD" must be used loosely in your country. I hear you have National Sports Leagues and you call the winner "WORLD" Champion. Its not surprising you forget there is an entire planet called EARTH which perhaps deserves to be called "WORLD". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.76.255.211 (talk) 23:33, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Oh OK, so you are just weird. Got it. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.51.128.21 (talk) 12:41, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Mason Storme?

Someone added this to the character list. I am a pretty big DC fan but have never heard of this character. Is this vandalism? Someone obscure? An original character created for the game? I don't own a copy of the game yet so I was hoping someone could verify. Rajah1 (talk) 18:35, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

I checked the DC and DCUO wikis and he didn't turn up in either place. Nor have I seen him in the game. I'm guessing he's an original character, so I removed him. If I was incorrect and he's an official character, anyone is free to put him back in with a link explaining who he is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.167.231.245 (talk) 16:26, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Reception?

Why you no reception? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.64.220.158 (talk) 07:26, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Superboy Prime? Professor Zoom & Zoom (Hunter Zolomon)?

Where in the sources is Superboy Prime confirmed as a villain in this game? I did not see anything confirming that and I have not seen him yet in-game despite playing quite extensively. If he is in it fine, but I would like some kind of official conformation, otherwise this is just like the Rorshach thing again. (Wishful thinking on some peoples' part.

Also why is both Professor Zoom & the Hunter Zolomon Zoom listed? After having spent some time in game I have not seen both Zooms, only Eobard Thawne. (Also the sources don't explicitly state that Zolomon is the version that was included.)

If these characters cannot be confirmed can we delete them from the list? Otherwise it is misleading. Like Rorshach...72.37.249.60 (talk) 14:14, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Reception Section

I feel the following should be removed from the reception section.

" A.C.P Jr. of SuperheroSentinel.com said "Think of it as DC/Warner Bros./Rocksteady’s Batman: Arkham Asylum and Blizzard Entertainment’s World Of Warcraft… on steroids! It’s that good, but so much BIGGER! Don’t believe me? Then don’t take my word for it… try it out for yourself. But be warned: Once you start, you’re hooked." "

While it may be from a review, I feel it is a statement that does not actually say anything. It may as well be an advertisement.

Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Light Bearer (talk • contribs) 18:52, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Here is a thought; why don't you try explaining why you feel this comment might as well have be an advertisement, when it clearly is a descriptive comparisson to two very popular games that just about every gamer can relate to. This person (Light Bearer explains that he "feels" it is a statement that does not actually say anything, but prior to that admits that it may be from a review, but nevertheless fails to really explain himself on why he "feels" it doesn't say anything. If anybody really made a statement that did not say anything, it was Light Bearers inconclusive excuse on why this excerpt should be yanked and why he felt it may as well had been an advertisement. The excerpt, which was quoted from an actual review on SuperheroSentinel.com, clearly explains what the game reviewer, ACP jr of Superhero Sentinel, felt about the game, by describing it in a sort of comparative form to two very popular games and then this game critic explains further by comparing the DCUO game to a combination to the two games (that is most popular with the public) and exclaiming that the DCUO game was bigger in play than theses two games combined, hence the implication in his remark about how it was like Batman Arkham Asylum and World of Warcraft on "steroids". How much more descriptive does this person have to be in such a small quote from their review. Maybe ACP should have been as vague as Light Bearer to get his point across better. Another thing I'm curious about; where did this person imply anything to give anyone (such as Light Bearer) the impression that he was advertising anything? I have read the other verbatim added by IGN and Gamespot's critics on the Reception section for this article on Wikipedia and it is honestly no different in it's descriptive and comparative nature than that of what Superhero Sentinel's game critic had wrote. For Light Bearer to suggest that this part of this section to be removed, and for his "feelings" on why, is not only vague and absolutely absurd, but biased and discriminating, as well. If this excerpt from an actual review was removed because Light Bearer "feels" that the very descriptive and comparative statement did not actually say anything, then I believe the other quotes and excerpts, which were just as descriptive and comparative, should also be removed, or I stand completely correct when I say that removing only the Superhero Sentinel's game critic's review quotes and excerpts from their DCUO review is biased and discriminating. The reception section of the DCUO article (or any video game or movie review) in Wikipedia is supposed to be about how the game was received by the critics who happened to have done reviews on that game. Maybe instead of Light Bearer going and asking Wikipedia for this quote from an actual review to be removed because of what he "feels" the statement is saying to him, maybe he should actually read it again and let his brain come to the conclusion of what this person was clearly trying to get across. I believe (not "feel") that this statement clearly makes a definitive point in a very amusing comparitive fashion, about how big the game and it's capabilities truly are! I also believe that Wikipedia should check to see if Light Bearer has any previous history or support for (and or from) IGN and/or Gamespot. This would explain the true intentions behind the writing of his biased and discriminating request for these two companies competitor's critic's statement to be removed. Also, by removing the Superhero Sentinel's critic's statement from the reception area of this article, Wikipedia is only giving two primarily negative reviews and no positive review, whatsoever. Which would be contradictory to the opening of this section's verbatim, where it clearly states how the game got "mixed" reviews.

Update- New Characters

Since the new update and upcoming DLC their will be and are new characters- Krypto Guy Gardener and Kyle Rayner 24.8.236.61 (talk) 19:26, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Indeed. Atrocitus and the introduction of the Red Lanterns will also be the DLC. We also know Zod, Ursa and Nonn will be in update 5 as well as the Jor-El AI in the Fortress of Solitude. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.167.231.245 (talk) 00:37, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

DLC and other updates

Is it possible for us to create a sub-category in gameplay or storyline (or add more content to the article beginning or a whole new category, really I don't know where it should go just that we need it) detailing this? The "Fight For the Light" DLC has been announced for three weeks now yet you wouldn't know it looking at the main page. At current the only thing updating is Confirmed Characters, and then only when put into the game. If we could have a place to detail announcements in brief it would be great.

We've also had four major game updates since launch with new content, and once again that's not noticeable except for in more characters added. Even if we don't go into detail on each one (since they WILL add up after all) we could at least detail what their update plan is regarding both updates and DLC and update how many have been put into the game. As it is the article is not up to date. I'm a wikipedia neophyte for editing so I'm not sure how to do this myself, so if anyone else is willing please do so. I feel it is important to keep the article current. We could also include new features into the gameplay section like the upcoming server merges (a big deal) when it comes and the addition of a Marketplace where you can purchase items with Station Cash a couple of weeks ago. We don't have to say these are newly added, of course, just that they are in the game. I imagine upon the one year mark we should have enough new additions to start a "History of the Game" or similar section going into more detail about additions (although admittedly this isn't for another 5+ months). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.167.231.245 (talk) 00:55, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Removing the Beta Section

Can we hold a vote to remove the Beta Section? It seems like padding for an article that needs improvement. If anything it should be collapsed into a Development section.72.37.249.60 (talk) 12:25, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Cast section

Can anybody source any of the claims made. I find it rather hard to believe that Dwight Schultz is voicing the Flash Barry Allen. Sarujo (talk) 20:26, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

People that worked on the game

I found it odd that it doesn't discuss the people from DC Comics that worked on the original release game and those that have taken over from the DC Comics end since then. I found some information regarding this "...the game's story co-writer Marv Wolfman and Tony Bedard..." on another wiki page. The game has gone through distinct phases based upon which people from DC Comics held influence over the game development. I have guesses as to who is supplying this input at this point, and I'm pretty sure it isn't Marv Wolfman And tony Bedard any longer. The leveling-content and end-game have distinctively different feels and/or takes on the characters in the DC Universe. I would find it interesting to find out who was in creative control from the DC Comics end during the different stages of the game's history, possibly listed by DLC release.WereTech (talk) 13:12, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Universe section - more information

I found the Universe section interesting since it fails to note that the New Teen Titans :: The Terror of Trigon (1984-1985) is included in the DCUO which pre-dates Crisis on Infinite Earths (1985-1986) in which Barry Allen (the Flash) dies. The "Barry Allen" in the game is the one that returned in Flash :: Rebirth (2009).

Part of this is due to the creative teams from DC Comics that were working on DCUO (the game) at the time. This article relates "...the game's story co-writer Marv Wolfman and Tony Bedard..."; however, I believe that was only in the initial release of the game and other individuals from DC Comics have taken control of which content is now added into the DCUO Universe.

It appears initially that the game was to include classic DC Comics from the past (note that "New Teen Titans :: The Terror of Trigon was written by Marv Wolfman in 1985-1986)(which is part of the DCUO game) and now there is some attempt to solely focus on new DC Comics content (as of Jan 2014, the most recent DLC (War of Light Part 1) is focused on the Red Lantern Corps which didn't appear until 2008), but the game can not be adapted (due to time and monetary constraints) to keep up with a rapidly changing and retconned DC Universe of the comics.

However, references saying that it is similar to Pre-New 52, is pretty wide sweeping and at least some of the things noted happened well before the New 52 retcon. WereTech (talk) 13:44, 11 February 2014 (UTC)