Talk:Dan Leno/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: TonyTheTiger (talk · contribs) 05:11, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

I have agreed to review this in response to a talk page request. It seems a tad bit outside of my expertise, but the article looked like it is probably pretty close to what WP:WIAGA is asking for so it should not be much of a problem for a general reader to review.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:11, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for assisting and I really appreciate you taking something on which is a shade out of your expertise. Here we go...-- Cassianto (talk) 10:55, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Excellent comments, Tony, thanks. Some responses and questions below. -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:02, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

WP:LEAD

• The multiple ands in the first sentence seem to make it run on. I'd cut the first sentence after the word actor and get rid of the second and.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:20, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• I have re-worded this and have managed to keep the specific roles in which Leno was famous for. I have deleted the second "and" cut the sentence where advised. -- Cassianto (talk) 10:55, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• There was some repetition here, because we talk about burlesque and pantomime later, which are both genres of musical theatre, so I streamlined this sentence further. Also, I clarified, in the Lead, that he was a leading comedian of the day. -- Ssilvers (talk) 14:37, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• Do any of those halls have articles to link to rather than have their municipal location following them.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:20, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• No wiki links as far as I can see. I will start new articles for these over the next few days. -- Cassianto (talk) 10:55, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• I don't see why we need to name all three music halls in the Lead. I eliminated two of the names from the Lead (they are named later in the article). The important point is, I think, that Leno performed in music halls both inside and outside of London early in his career. Cassianto, for purposes of this GA, you don't have to kill yourself to write articles about obscure music halls, although that's a great idea for ones that were prominent or particularly prestigious performing halls or had long and interesting lives as performing spaces. -- Ssilvers (talk) 14:37, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• Are you dissatisfied with the redirects for comic play and musical comedy?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:20, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• I have swapped musical comedy for "musical theatre" and deleted 'comic plays". -- Cassianto (talk)

• Cassianto, just checking - other than music hall sketches, did he do significant non-musical plays? -- Ssilvers (talk) 14:37, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• Away from the books at the moment. I will get back to this. -- Cassianto (talk) 14:46, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• Nothing significant. -- Cassianto (talk) 09:01, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks. Then I think it is OK now. -- Ssilvers (talk) 02:59, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Biography

• Was "The Great Little Lenos" the first reference to him as Leno or did he legally change his name from Galvin at some prior point?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:48, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• I have mentioned this in a footnote. Is this ok or would you prefer it to be built into the text? -- Cassianto (talk),

• I'd work the bulk of footnotes 2, 7 and 8 into the main text.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 11:38, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• I see that Cassianto has now added material in the text noting when Leno first used that stage name. I added part of each of footnotes 2 and 7 into the main text, but I would recommend against moving footnote 8 into the text. We already have plenty (too much?) in the text about Leno's death, IMO, and I find Roberts's theory to be silly at best. Leno's performance before Edward VII was in 1901, well before Leno's breakdown, and I never heard of anyone being pushed into madness by getting a tie pin after a Command Performance. Roberts was just a fellow actor - I have no reason to believe that he had special access to Leno's state of mind at the end of 1901, throughout 1902 and into 1903, when Leno had his breakdown. -- Ssilvers (talk) 02:39, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

• While we're on the subject, Tony, what do you think of footnote 6? Is there already enough about this journal in the main text, or is your sense that some of this stuff in footnote 6 should go in the text? -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:01, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

• Now that you mention it, I would move 6 into the text too.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:56, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

• 6 has now been merged into text. - Cassianto (talk) 23:27, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

• Can you give any detail regarding "breaking box-office records"?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:48, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• Unfortunately, Brandreth doesn't elaborate. I have specified "audience numbers" as that's what determines "Box-office records" I suppose. Is this Ok? -- Cassianto (talk) 10:55, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• I changed it to record "attendance", but if Brandreth actually says "box-office numbers", I would use those words, since I think WP readers are very familiar with that term. -- Ssilvers (talk) 02:39, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

• Brandreth does say "box-office" -- Cassianto (talk) 09:01, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

• Then I think it's OK either way. I'll leave it to you guys. -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:01, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

• Link The Times--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:48, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• Linked. -- Cassianto (talk) 10:55, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• Change "£200 (equivalent in value to £14,400 in 2010)" and similar conversions to a dynamic conversions. I think pounds has something similar to that used at Bobby Orr.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:48, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• converted to dynamic conversions. I also noticed another one, so ditto to that too. -- Cassianto (talk) 10:55, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• Can you link the proper the Queen and the Prince of Wales as well as Princess of Wales? --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:48, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• I'm having difficulty in interpreting this question. Where are they mentioned? As far as I can see, they are mentioned within a quote and there are MOS issues around this here -- Cassianto (talk) 10:55, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• Since you have the source for the quote, maybe you could bolster the prose and answer the natural curiosity about who you are mentioning.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 11:42, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• Done in the sentence above. Cassianto, I simplified your links, but check to see if what I did makes sense to an Englishman. -- Ssilvers (talk) 02:39, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

• That looks OK, but I don't think she was known as Queen Alexandra. I went for Alexandra, the Queen Consort (which didn't sound right). Yours sounds better. -- Cassianto (talk) 09:01, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Personal life

• Should there be a comma after Leno in Dan Leno Jr.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 12:01, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• Yes. Done. -- Cassianto (talk) 13:30, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• add conversion for two acres--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 12:01, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• Now converted. -- Cassianto (talk) 13:47, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• Is there a reason you didn't link cricket.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 12:01, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• Now linked. -- Cassianto (talk) 13:30, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• Add {{personality rights}} to File:Augustus Harris.jpg--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:06, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• Tony, Harris died in 1896 in England, and he was a "public figure". Moreover, it does not apply to people who have given their consent to being photographed. See this. I am fairly sure that we don't need a personality rights tag for him. -- Ssilvers (talk) 02:41, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Ordinarily I would suggest adding {{personality rights}} to all of the other images of people.

• All these people died in England in the early 20th century, and they were all "public figures". Moreover, it does not apply to people who have given their consent to being photographed. See this. I am fairly sure that we don't need a personality rights tag for any of these images. -- Ssilvers (talk) 02:41, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

However, I [Tony] don't understand what is going on with the licensing of the following:

• File:Leno4.jpg - this is from a book published in 1899. Can be transferred to Commons. How do you do that?

• Moved to commons.

• File:The Railway Guard.jpg - this is from an edition of the same book published in 1901. Transfer to Commons.

• Moved

• File:Leno-Beefeater.jpg - Published in 1904. Transfer to Commons.

• Moved

• File:Campbell and Nicholls 1888.jpg - Cassianto confirm: Published in 1888? If so, Transfer to Commons. - 1888 is correct (month range only I'm afraid).

• Moved

• File:Leno as Sister Ann 1901.jpg - Published in 1904. Transfer to Commons.

• Moved

• File:Dan Leno.jpg - Published in 1904. Transfer to Commons.

• Moved

• File:Leno3.jpg - Published in 1904. Transfer to Commons.

• Moved

Are these going to be transferred to commons? Maybe an image person should review these and get their status clarified. It seems that the first should have the same tags as the rest, but it does not.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:06, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• I will ask Yomangani - Cassianto (talk) 15:47, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

• These all look good to me, copyright-wise (see above). If Yomangani agrees, see if he can transfer them to Commons. The first one showed the wrong publication date, but I fixed it. -- Ssilvers (talk) 02:39, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

I have left a message on his talkpage. -- Cassianto (talk) 09:01, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

All images have been moved to commons by Jujutacular. Are there any more issues with the images? -- Cassianto (talk) 10:32, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Can an image expert speak to the propriety of my concern about the need for {{personality rights}} on these images at commons.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:51, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes absolutely. I have left a note on Jujutacular's talkpage. -- Cassianto (talk) 15:12, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

In all jurisdictions that I am aware of (including the UK and the US), personality rights only extend to the person's death or a limited number of years beyond. For a person that has been dead for over a hundred years, it would be misleading to apply that tag. On a side note, I couldn't find that tag being used on any of our FAs for living people (although it probably should be). Jujutacular (talk) 17:38, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

That's great Jujutacular thank-you for confirming that. Tony, does this address the issue? -- Cassianto (talk) 17:59, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes. Is Ssilvers satisfied with your changes?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:42, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't see this until just now. Yes, I'm all set. -- Ssilvers (talk) 14:04, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

O.K. Now, I am going to PASS this article.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:25, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

That's great news! Thank you Tony for such a good and thorough review! -- Cassianto (talk) 16:56, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Tony. Happy editing! -- Ssilvers (talk) 17:21, 26 March 2012 (UTC)