Talk:Danny Kaye/Archive 1

Archive 1

Moon over Manhattan

Apparently he wasnt in the film. http://thedannykayeshow.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/danny-kayes-first-film-fraud.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paultz (talk • contribs) 08:55, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

Sexuality

Is there anything to the rumors that he's gay? Surely there should be a mention along the lines of "unproven rumors of homosexuality were frequently attributed to Kaye, but never proven" or "rumors of Kaye's homosexuality, though frequent, were baseless" or something. Unless he came out before the end. In which case, that should be mentioned. I really don't know much about Kaye, but probably someone does and should add it to the article. Carlj7 (talk · contribs) - 04:12, 27 September 2004 (UTC)

Some of Kaye's films contain dialogue which has been interpreted as veiled jokes about his supposed bi-sexuality: -Not sure how this is relevant, since Kaye is not the writer or director. ie, it's like saying the movie proves Kaye really was Hans Christian Andersen.

• In Hans Christian Andersen: Hans says "You'd be surprised how many kings are only a queen with a mustache."
• In The Court Jester Jean says to Hawkins "I think [my father] wanted me to be a boy." They kiss, then Hawkins says "Too bad... you'd have made a wonderful girl." --Design 13:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

He was bi. Werdnawerdna (talk) 09:59, 7 November 2008 (UTC) Shirley Maclaine, was not a good person. She goes to bed with everyone in the past, maybe he didn´t go with her and then she put a rumour frustated she was. He was a honest man, not like the crazy Shirley Maclaine. I guess Shirley Maclaine have some hidding things.

And your proof? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.64.0.252 (talk) 21:18, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

The whole thing sounds like original research to me - trying to put this quote here with that quote there to lead to a conclusion that can not be verified anywhere. And, upon inspection of the Olivier article, there seems also some twisting of the sources as well. I call that bad journalism, tabloid mentality, certainly not anything you’d find in a real encyclopedia.

Basically, one person made a quip that could have had a double meaning. Nobody said anything about either person being gay or bi. And all you’ve got from there is numerous people denying the reality of such a claim. And somehow this translates to “Frequent rumors” and “He was bi.” Four or five denials to one double entendre equals historical speculation, not the stuff of which encyclopedias are made.

Sure, according to Wikipedia's rules you can put in anything you can cite. But it still seems disreputable to be citing obvious gossip. I pity the poor kid who reads this gossip and writes it in a school paper as if it were fact.

What you have there seems like you're deliberately trying to cast aspersions on the man. You say a person once said something to the effect that Kaye had a relationship with Olivier, but there are other kinds of relationships two men can have. Then you've got a direct quote from Kaye himself saying he never did anything gay, and a few other denials.

So, basically you're mentioning something just to deny it. Which looks like you're saying, "There is no evidence to support this allegation, but we're going to shove it in your face just because we can in hopes it will color your historical impression of this person. Even though there is no justifiable reason for you to think gay when you think of Kaye, we want you to think gay anyway."

Don't worry, I'm not going to edit it, because I’m not interested in getting into an argument. I’m just logging my protest for the record, in hopes that whoever polices this article will someday have an attack of conscience and fix this. Perri Rhoades (talk) 15:38, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm with Perri Rhoades on this. After nine years of unsubstantiated gossip full of "weasel words" and "original research" which violate Wiki's mature norms, not one bit of evidence has been produced. But the last thing I need in a busy life is an edit war over a deceased actor's sexuality. By now experienced Wiki readers have learned to ignore this stuff. Profhum (talk) 17:47, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

One cannot judge an actor based on a line in a script that someone else wrote. If that were the case, one might assume that Jimmy Stewart and Walter Brennan were lovers in real life. However... though Danny Kaye was no more "effeminate" than, say, Tony Randall (a well-known heterosexual), there is something decidedly uninhibited about him that suggests he was not conventionally heterosexual. But barring the unlikely uncovering of something definitive, it's reasonable to accept Kaye's explicit denial, and let the matter rest.

Joking homosexual (or simply homoerotic) references are not uncommon in films, even those made when the Code was in effect. One of the plot lines in Top Hat (or is it Flying Down to Rio?) has people believing that Fred Astaire and Edward Everett Horton are having an affair. In She Wouldn't Say Yes, a wretched Rosalind Russell comedy, one of the characters thinks she's seeing a marriage between two men officiated by a Justice of the Peace. (She isn't.) WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 17:52, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

This whole debate is unduly sordid. Kaye denied he was gay, and so did most of his close associates. For the section in the biographical article on his Personal Life to be largely about this, does a huge disservice to his nonetheless rich personal life, and most of all his memory and legacy. This deceased person should not be used in this way by those with an LGBT agenda (trying to "out" a dead man)- most of the debate on the question should be relegated to the "Discussion" page, and the Personal Life section should be VERY largely expounded on the basis of the demonstrable facts of his life. Kvitlach (talk) 22:49, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Sordid is right. What we forget is that in the days before homosexuality became socially acceptable, it frequently provided opportunities for humour and inuendo and no-one thought anything of it. In fact it was assumed or believed by many people that homosexuality was mythical and therefore an ideal topic for jokes. John C Kay (talk) 02:34, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Oh good night. Why do people continually bring up stuff like this? Do they get some kind of charge out of it? Leave people alone, for good night, especially when they are not here to answer for themselves. It is evil to invent stuff that cannot be proven one way or another. Since when is sexuality supposed to be open for everyones imagination? Ridiculous. When are people going to learn to take the higher road and stay out of others' private times? (Raina (talk) 05:32, 23 July 2012 (UTC))

Is not important if he was or not? He is not here to say. But according to a conversation with his late girlfriend, he said he was heterosexual. So there is the truth, he was heterosexual. People grow, i guess the people who come with this questions, maybe have a problem with them own orientation. By the way, everybody is bi. Some are more hetero others are more homo. What´s the point? Who cares? People grow and know more about the world and youselfs. We have to help the world and not losing time with ridiculous thing, is not our bussiness. That shows that people are insecure, ignorant or frustated.

D.O.B.

The article said 1918 at the top and 1911 at the bottom. I have never seen anything but 1913 given, which is what IMdB says. Richard K. Carson 03:42, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

~~break He was born in 1911, but the family lied on the birth certificate for immigration reasons. Publicly people thought he was born in 1913. This article needs to be changed. Turner Classic Movies has done a huge thing on him all day today and it was explained. Feel free to contact them and verify. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.8.50.83 (talk) 17:07, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

In fact, here's the OFFICIAL WEBSITE: http://officialdannykaye.com/bio Danny Kaye was born David Daniel Kaminsky on January 18, 1913 in Brooklyn, New York. (His actual year of birth was 1911, but the birthday he celebrated was 1913). They don't explain on the OFFICIAL website why he celebrated 1913, but I'm pretty sure it would've had to deal with immigration reasons. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.8.50.83 (talk) 17:15, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

His daughter, Dena Kay reported on TCM today (1/20/2013) that his actual birthday was January 18, 1911, though he celebrated birthdays from 1913 and his death certificate has 1913 as his birth year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AlanEisen (talk • contribs) 05:14, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

The TCM bio for Kaye still has 1913 however. Until the leading sources like TCM and IMDB get caught up, we should stick to them, otherwise someone will change it again. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 05:53, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

How about you actually stick to the only leading source that matters instead of intentionally distributing false information? The OFFICIAL BIO on the OFFICIAL WEBSITE should trump all other sources. All you need to do is say: "1911 is the real birthdate, but he celebrated 1913" and CITE THE OFFICIAL WEBSITE. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.8.50.83 (talk) 20:04, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

That "official" website's News page includes an article from his daughter: "My father, Danny Kaye, whose 100th birthday we are celebrating today . . . ." The article was written 1/18/2013. Since the site has a Contact page, why didn't she clarify? --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 22:21, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Honestly, that argument is pretty ignorant. The site actually does clarify. She has clarified on TCM. She's celebrating the date that he put down after emigrating to the USA. His actual REAL LIFE Birthday is 1911. It doesn't take a genius here to list it properly, and your arguments to completely maintain a falsehood because of: 1. A blog entry 2. Two Wikipedia based User Submission Websites Is the reason why wikipedia is often viewed as lacking integrity.

ALL you people need to do is cite the OFFICIAL WEBSITE and state: 1913 Celebrated (1911 actual) with a citation to the official site.

Your absolute refusal to do that is a joke.

The way around your dilemma is to contact the "official" webmaster and have them add the name of the writer of the bio. That writer's statement would also need to somehow override the News web page articles which celebrated 1913 as the DOB and are on the same website. Or you could find another published source. The 1913 date is published in encyclopedias, like Vaudeville Old & New: An Encyclopedia of Variety Performers in America. As for him changing the date after he emigrated to the U.S., that one is a bit trickier, I think, considering that Brooklyn was part of the U.S. when he was born. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 04:56, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

That was just an editor making a human error, or conflating his birth to migrants with birth in the US, so let's not make too much of that.

If his daughter has confirmed he really was born in 1911, as the website says, I say we should go with that. But I have to question the weird way the website expressed it:

• Danny Kaye was born David Daniel Kaminsky on January 18, 1913 in Brooklyn, New York. (His actual year of birth was 1911, but the birthday he celebrated was 1913).

It would have been much simpler and clearer as:

• Danny Kaye was born David Daniel Kaminsky on January 18, 1911 in Brooklyn, New York, but he always claimed he was born in 1913.

But apart from any of that, we have a sentence in Personal life that reads: ... Kaye's daughter Dena revealed to TCM host Ben Mankiewicz that Kaye was actually born in 1911. But the date we give in the lede and infobox is 1913. That's an inconsistency that must be resolved, one way or another, ASAP. What date are our beloved readers supposed to believe? -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 20:23, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

To be safe, the statement by his daughter on TCM should probably be left out until TCM updates their own Kaye bio with that detail. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 21:32, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

To be convenient, maybe you mean? Her statement is sourced, and is independent of the TCM website. But even without that, you're foreshadowing that it will appear on the website, so what happens then? No point burying our heads in the sand until the inevitable occurs. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 21:39, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

I guess it's sourced. But is it verifiable enough, which it should be? In this case, the real source is a visiting IP who watched an interview. If we revise an encyclopedia entry based on that, the V bar gets moved way down and could set a precedent. In the future, if we had to justify the new date, all we could say is that "someone" who watched an interview heard his daughter say ". . . ." And what if someone else comes along and recalls another tv interview where they remember some other facts? It's more than "convenient," IMO, to wait. --Wikiwatcher1 (talk) 21:59, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

What shall we do about this? There is precedent for including a section at the top of the article for disputed DOB e.g. Charo. He was born in 1911 but the sources for 1911 need to outweigh the sources for 1913 and, short of a copy of the birth certificate, I don't know where we are. This is what I have:

"Danny wasn't born on January 18, 1913," explained David Koenig, author of the new book "Danny Kaye: King of Jesters" (Bonaventure Press, November 2012). "He was actually born January 18, 1911. Which made him 30 when he was appearing in Lady in the Dark." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-hill/danny-kaye-centennial_b_2501031.html

“He actually was born in 1911, but when we started planning the Centennial, we decided to use the year that he chose. [Laughs]” Dena Kaye interview in http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=12445

Kaye's daughter Dena has revealed that his birth certificate indicates that he was born in 1911, not 1913 as Kaye had publicly claimed, and that no one in the family knows why he made this alteration to his age. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001414/bio

Danny celebrated and disclosed his birthday as January 18, 1913, though he was most likely born on January 18, 1911 in Brooklyn, NY. Some websites, as well as the Social Security Death Index, state that Danny was born on January 18, 1911. According to David Koenig (Danny Kaye: King of Jesters) January 28, 1911 is listed on Danny's birth certificate and passports. "[...] in his late 20s [Danny] shaved two years off his publicized age. But why he would add back an extra 10 days is mysterious and suggests that perhaps the date written on the certificate is in error," says Koenig. Most sources, including articles, interviews, and biographies (Martin Gottfried's Nobody's Fool and Kurt Singer's The Danny Kaye Story, etc), state that Danny was born in 1913, not 1911. Danny himself said this in an article he wrote in October 1944. But according to Danny Kaye's Official Website, his correct birth year is 1911: "His actual year of birth was 1911, but the birthday he celebrated was 1913." In a recent interview with Dena Kaye, "Getting Reacquainted With Danny Kaye," this issue was also mentioned: "Kaye was actually born Jan. 18, 1911, but he celebrated 1913 as the year of his birth. His daughter never discovered the explanation for the switch. 'He was not conventional,' she noted." http://www.dannykaye.net/dkfaq.html#Born Silverwood (talk) 12:43, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Bathtub Admiral

This might not be the proper place to ask, but perhaps someone can tell me what the acronym "LMSOT" in the Danny Kaye song "Bathtub Admiral" means - Google finds nothing about it. Hi There (talk · contribs) - 09:18, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

The right place to ask is Wikipedia:Reference desk. Incidentally, LST would mean Landing Ship, Tank. Are you sure you heard those lettters in that order? -Dhodges 14:45, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, exactly those letters in exactly that order. It is very plain. Nothing at the Wiki Ref Desk about it either, though. :( Hi There (talk · contribs) - 16:48, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, what's the context? I know you said "exactly those letters in exactly those order," but It couldn't by any chance been LS/MFT, could it, which at the time was a slogan for "Lucky Strike Means Fine Tobacco?" Or a riff on those initials? Dpbsmith (talk) 17:35, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

This site... http://www.angelfire.com/film/dannykaye/Bathtub.htm ... think it's "LMFOT," so obvious it's not quite as plain as all that... Dpbsmith (talk) 17:37, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Oops! Sorry, my mistake; LMFOT it is! /sighs/ Hi There 18:43, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, but that still doesn't help, as I don't know what an LMFOT is. Dpbsmith (talk) 22:20, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Just for the record, LMFOT is "laser micro-machined fiber optic tap", which fits Danny Kaye's enumeration of big weapons. Nazroon 22:37, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I have to ask if Nazroon's explanation is serious or not. Laser and Fibre-optic cables don't seem to fit easily in DK's mouth. Alanobrien (talk) 20:31, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Family

I think this article would benefit by adding brief information about his parents & siblings. --Design 00:37, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Tap dancing with Bing Crosby?

Did he really tap dance with Bing Crosby in what is purported to be one of history's happiest Christmases? Where could one see this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.161.213.88 (talk) 03:47, 8 December 2006 (UTC).
— In the movie "White Christmas", both Bing Crosby and Danny Kaye portrayed a pair of soldiers who end up giving a theatrical christmas show for their old commander. If there's any place for them to tapdance together, especially considering your christmas comment, look there. Maki (talk) 13:00, 15 October 2017 (UTC) — You can witness Bing Crosby tap dancing with Danny Fugging Kaye at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZaYnHzu3cE Niasain (talk) 15:39, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

visit to israel

Danny visited Israel in 1958. He was invited to one of Israel airforce bases and had his pictures taken with an aiforce pilot, me. I am looking for the pictures. 71.106.170.91 06:58, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

His infamous visit to Denmark

Danny Kaye/Archive 1 was once kicked out of the Hans Christian Andersen Museum in Denmark after he jumped in Hans Christian Andersen’s bed. That's just a known story about him, but I don't seem to find any written sources about it online except from a travel guide to Copenhagen, Denmark. Can anyone help in adding more respected sources so I could include this in his article (as it's an interesting story about him)? I'm sure there was a semi-controversy about it (otherwise, I wouldn't know about this in the first place). I also wonder if it happened before or after his Hans Christian Andersen movie. Thanks! -Lwc4life 19:03, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

It has the air of an urban legend. It is not described in Gottfried's highly critical biography and if "everyone knows it," but it isn't something that can be sourced, that tends to indicate an urban legend.Shsilver 14:43, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

According to Martin Gottfried, it was at the end of filming in the summer of 1952. Kaye ... plunked himself down on the bed. By the time :the photo­graph in the next day's Danish newspapers showed him clowning in the Andersen shrine he was halfway home.

The Hans Christian Andersen Society protested to the American embassy. Kaye was met at Idlewild Airport by a crowd of reporters. "I was a guest of the Danish Newspaper Guild," he said. "One of the photographers asked me to sit on the bed and lean back for a photograph. The curator assented. That was the end of it."

Ironically, the bed on which he had re­clined was not Hans Christian Andersen's. Some weeks after the incident, the director of the Andersen Museum in Odense admitted that the real Andersen bed had been stored away years before.70.50.52.210 (talk) 19:47, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

References

Kaye House

The official Kaye House website states that it was built from the donations of one A.S. Kaye from Washington DC, not Danny Kaye. --Karpada 14:38, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

What is a PS 149?

The article says Kaye "spent his early youth attending PS 149....." What is a PS 149? 222.153.81.85 (talk) 23:31, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Public School number 149 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bizzybody (talk • contribs) 05:41, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Appearance on Muppets

Swedish Chef and his uncle - Video on YouTube 141.166.230.9 (talk) 03:40, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court

Danny Kaye wasn't in the 1949 movie, he's not in the cast list for it on the TCM or IMDB site nor is it listed on his IMDB bio page. Through the typical strange odyssey of starting at one link and clicking through others, I was certain he'd been in an adaption of that Mark Twain story, but apparently he wasn't, at least not the one with Bing Crosby. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bizzybody (talk • contribs) 07:48, 15 August 2008

A lot of people confuse ACYIKAC with The Court Jester- which did star Danny Kaye. I know this as I have just lost a bet about which film included the song "Busy Doing Nothing". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.151.136.165 (talk) 12:25, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Mention of his music??

I am under the impression that he did several semi-famous songs, including Civilization with the Andrew Sisters, which song is made famous again in the game Fallout 3. Should there be a mention of his songs anywhere? Or is that classified as "part of one of his variety shows", since that's probably where they were first heard?

I have several links, but since I'm not sure about copyrights, I'll avoid posting them. Needless to say, a simple google search will turn up a few songs... 24.6.132.138 (talk) 18:30, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Child character

In quite a number of his songs, perhaps most famously "Bathtub Admiral" and "The Thank you note", Kay poprtrayed a child character in a way found quite endearing by many critics and fans. This should probably be mentioned. 70.106.89.93 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:18, 9 December 2009 (UTC).

Grave Marker

The items on the grave marker represent both Danny's loves and Sylvia's loves. The "flower pot" is actually an orchid. Sylvia loved growing her orchids and built a special addition on their CA home to keep them. It was next to the indoor swimming pool.

References

VVictoria Meyerink

The article makes no mention of an embarrassment -- arguably a minor scandal -- near the end of Danny Kaye's career. At the end of his TV show, he would sit with little girl (about 4 or 5) on his knee (I forget her name -- Victoria-something, I think), and talk with her. It was charming -- though one might uncharitably interpret it as an attempt to exploit Kaye's supposed empathy with children. Regardless, after a few weeks she became cold and withdrawn, and would not respond to Kaye.

It turned out that Kaye paid no attention to her after the show, and she interpreted this as being "used" by Kaye. She wouldn't have used those words, of course, but it appeared to her that he went from great interest in her when they were on-camera, to little or no interest when they weren't on camera.

This should be properly researched and added to the article. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 18:06, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

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Anti-HUAC stance

There should be some mention in this article of Kaye's stance against the McCarthy witch-hunts of the House Un-American Committee. Sadly I don't know enough about it to write it myself... anyone able to? Grutness...wha? 03:44, 29 June 2012 (UTC) I logged in to ask about this same topic, and I agree with Grutness that it ought to be mentioned, particularly in light of the ironic fact that the posthumous award Mr. Kaye received was presented by a certain former US President who testified before HUAC against brave people like Mr. Kaye, Mr. Bogart and Ms. Bacall. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wreck1066 (talk • contribs) 02:30, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Palladium

I don't think enough mention is made of his 1948 show at the Palladium Theatre in London. For Londoners it was quite incredibly important; it was the beginning of the end of the really dark years. 70-year-old British people still talk about it. Is there a showbiz expert out there? Alanobrien (talk) 20:39, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

O Canada

"As Anthony DePalma of the New York Times said, Canada is the Danny Kaye of nations, for those who remember the mild-mannered comic actor--and by the way, none of my students do."

http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=e&Mode=1&Parl=37&Ses=2&DocId=780782 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.108.27.26 (talk) 14:34, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Sally Rand and the Fans

'he was hired to watch the fans... ' makes no sense. Kaye just stood there and looked at them ? Or does it mean that he was her attendant, and picked up and handed her any stray fan she dropped ? Quickly ? Odd sort of job. Nice work if you can get it. 2001:44B8:3102:BB00:122:F44A:21A9:2CE0 (talk) 09:19, 18 August 2018 (UTC)