Talk:Danse macabre (Saint-Saëns)

Halloween

I have a problem with the assertion that Danse Macabre has anything to do with Halloween. Halloween is an English/US holiday and was not celebrated in France until 1982 at the earliest (according to this webpage <http://french.about.com/library/bl-halloweeninfrance.htm>, which is consistent with my experience). What supports the Halloween assertion? According to what (French) legend? What French superstition? Something doesn't ring true here. Sorry to be such a nit-pick. This aspect of the entry seems to be excessively Anglo-American-centric. Mark Snyder, Versoix7 Versoix7 (talk) 00:49, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

The problem is probably the usage of the word Halloween. Halloween is a contraction of All Hallows Evening, or the evening before All Hallows. In French it is known as "Toussaint". All Hallows (often known as All Saints) is a Western Christian feast celebrated on November 1st. As this is the English language Wikipedia the use of the word Halloween should not be considered Anglo-centric but could be considered Christian-centric. In the article Halloween is wikified, and in the article on Halloween the Christian origins are clearly stated. So I do not think the article is in any way biased. And I think your point is valid, not nit-picking, hope this has cleared it up.

Concerning the superstition and legend I am not well versed in those areas. But I can make an educated guess. As with most Christian feasts, there are elements of earlier celebrations (for example the Christmas Tree). The Celts had a similar feast. The Celts lived across Europe, especially in France and the UK and Ireland. It is not unlikely that the celebration of All Saints will contain elements of earlier feasts. France is a large country and it's borders have changed considerably over the years. The tradition of Halloween may have been popular in a certain region (which may no longer be part of France) and spread across the country, just as Halloween seems to be spreading across the world. One such tradition I can think of is nuit des betteraves grimaçantes (Rommelbootzennaat) which is a tradition that stems from the Lorraine area (in Moselle). The origins of these traditions are often obscure. You may be familiar with the feast of Saint Nicholas, which is celebrated in many countries and is the archetype for Father Christmas (Santa Claus). 77.167.212.162 (talk) 09:42, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

MP3

I know the link was working before, but it appears to be broken now. I'm marking this page and checking but later just in case the site is down. Morgrim 06:35, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I know the mp3 is down, but there is a MIDI version at: http://www.karadar.com/Dictionary/saint-saens.html ItsProgrammable (2006 October 5)

The MIDI link is also down; I can't read the message on their site though, so it may or may not be back up. -- Whitepaw 13:02, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

No worries, I just added a working link to a Youtube video. ~~MusicalConnoisseur~~ Got Classical? 05:46, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Other versions of the poem

Are there other versions of the poem? I think I've heard variations of the poem it's based on. Or is it just the English translations from French that are different? --86.12.232.113 21:48, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

No, no...I myself have a slightly different copy of the translated text than written here, but only slight variations in the English translation, not in the original French. After all, this article states, "The composition is based upon a poem by Henri Cazalis, on an old French superstition." ~~MusicalConnoisseur~~ Got Classical? 05:49, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Is the version of the poem quoted in the article a public domain translation or is it copyrighted? eludio — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eludio (talk • contribs) 19:26, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Reception

I noticed the "Reception" section has changed drastically in the past month:

"When Danse Macabre first premiered, it was not received well. Audiences were quite unsettled by the disturbing, yet innovative, sounds that Saint-Saëns elicited." -Revision as of 21:29, 29 October 2007

"When Danse Macabre first premiered, it was received incredibly well. Audiences loved the perfect smooth, innovative sounds that Saint-Saëns elicited." -Current revision (16:21, 12 November 2007)

So which is it? Going back through the history, I noticed the paragraph has been changed a few words at a time, every few days, until its current revision.

I've reverted the edits you describe, since someone at the same IP made another obvious bit of vandalism to the last line of the poem. "...their cocks have crowed..." geez... Samworf (talk) 10:26, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually, neither telling seems to be supported by facts. From a quick search through the books, it actually seems as if the piece was met with indifference. Willi Gers07 (talk) 19:25, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

In addition, "When Danse macabre first premiered" - when, could we have a date for this event? Cyborg4 :) (talk) 12:06, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Better Audio

I think we could probably use some better audio. Kevin MacLeod's production, while using some good virtual instruments, has some pretty major inconsistencies with the original score. There's a more accurate rendition at IMSLP by the University of Chicago orchestra, but it sounds pretty out of tune and sloppy, and it's not great audio quality. Anyone got any other alternatives? ironmagma (talk) 18:04, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Popular culture

Jonathan Creek

I have changed the description of Jonathan Creek being an 'English' series. It is broadcast and I think produced, at least in part, by the BBC - the British Boadcasting Corporation. Also, in the previous version of the article, the link from 'English' linked to the United Kingdom anyway. These are two separate things. Chris G

Disney

To my surprise the Silly Symphony Hansel and Gretel is mentioned but not the The Skeleton Dance, which was made in 1929. Although Carl Stalling, who scored the original music, claims it was not based on the Danse Macabre, it is very unlikely that the cartoon was not at least inspired by the Danse Macabre (either the poem by Henri Cazalis or the music by Saint-Saëns). It was not unusual for Disney Studios to use themes from classical music to make cartoons at that time. 77.167.212.162 (talk) 12:22, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

H A Double L O W Double E N spells "Halloween"

With some silly lyrics this is a popular children's Halloween song, it's on every youtube playlist and the lips a tens of thousands of children in the USA for decades, but for the life of me I can't find the original artists name or any info to include here. Any ideas? BoosterBronze (talk) 17:51, 25 October 2021 (UTC) " Halloween: Games, Songs and Stories" by Wade Denning & Kay Lande is the album it comes from. 1969. It's just Danse Macabre with lyrics. What would be a good way to cite this? 206.211.34.18 (talk) 18:24, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

Tritone

The tritone was never called the “devil in music” until the 17th century, which is not medieval. Can someone rewrite that part of the article to reflect this fact? Willthrill9 (talk) 18:33, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Tritone#Historical uses says: "The name diabolus in musica (Latin for 'the Devil in music') has been applied to the interval from at least the early 18th century, or the late Middle Ages, So what should the best phrasing be? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:37, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

References

Anachronism

A poem from the 1870s cannot be based on a play from the 1890s. 108.36.224.92 (talk) 14:59, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for that observation; now removed. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:14, 1 November 2024 (UTC)