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This article should adhere to the gender identity guideline because it contains material about one or more trans men. Precedence should be given to self-designation as reported in the most up-to-date reliable sources, anywhere in article space, even when it doesn't match what's most common in reliable sources. Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman") that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. Some people go by singular they pronouns, which are acceptable for use in articles. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. Former, pre-transition names may only be included if the person was notable while using the name; outside of the main biographical article, such names should only appear once, in a footnote or parentheses.If material violating this guideline is repeatedly inserted, or if there are other related issues, please report the issue to the LGBTQ+ WikiProject, or, in the case of living people, to the BLP noticeboard.
Pronouns and description as a trans man or a lesbian
Latest comment: 4 years ago5 comments5 people in discussion
Not sure how this person qualifies as notable, but in any case, Dante "Tex" Gill, regardless of what the transgendered community would have you believe, was a lesbian, not transgendered. And Scarlet Johannson did not withdraw due to media backlash, unless you count social media as media. She withdrew due to the outcry of the transgendered community, not due to any attacks from the media, who did nothing but report on it. 2603:9000:8D8B:3800:38DB:BC6B:92F5:E93F (talk) 14:29, 2 August 2018 (UTC)Reply
Available sources are problematic and need analysis for a Wikipedia article to be accurate.
Obit states: For years, according to police, Ms. Gill ran a string of parlors as fronts for prostitution, all the while insisting that she was a man and telling everyone she wanted to be known as "Mr. Gill." which is reportage of a first person identification. The same obit infers that Gill was "An unabashed lesbian ..." in contradiction to the first person statements.
More clearly this article about the proposed film states One of the few who stood up for his identity was Friedman, who, when asked by a court why she used male pronouns for her client, responded simply “that’s what he considers himself.” which is a more formal statement of gender identification by his lawyer.
Further we also have a statement from Gill's cousin: Now, Paris said, there is no question Gill should be referred to as “he.”
What is important to distinguishing between Gill being described as a butch lesbian or a transman on Wikipedia is first person statements, with secondary reportage treated being more circumstantial. Having died in 2003 in their 70s, will also mean that Gill did not have access to current more accurate terminology such as being a trans man or non binary, but their own preference for using "Mr. Gill" and insisting on male pronouns, means that a Wikipedia article should respect their own pronoun choice, rather than redefining him as a woman and a lesbian for convenience. --Fæ (talk) 10:08, 15 July 2019 (UTC)Reply
Agree the decision was made by Gill to be referred to as Mr/male, and as such that is how he should be referred to in the article. As pointed out "Gill did not have access to current more accurate terminology", so was saved from trying to keep up with the "in vogue" expressions and not falling foul of using last weeks "correct term" which is an offensive term this week. --John B123 (talk) 16:10, 15 July 2019 (UTC)Reply
I agree completely with what everyone is saying here, since the guideline is to identify a subject as they most recently identified themselves. But I feel like a brief mention of Gill's misgendering in news articles would be important to include. No need to go into details about those article's contents, or make the spotlight of this Wiki article those articles, but it adds a layer of understanding to how Gill was covered by the press in his lifetime. 2601:282:1300:296:A953:C669:7E4:1F8C (talk) 05:16, 27 November 2019 (UTC)Reply
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