Talk:Darren Clarke

Untitled

Until some one can work his birth place in to the main article cleanly (as required by the style manual), I'm removing his birth place. He was born in Dungannon, County Tyrone. Trevor1 05:27, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Legend

Well done Darren. You were magnificent today (Ryder Cup Sunday). The world mourns your loss and celebrates your skill and humanity.

Confusion over Irishness

Many Northern Irishmen are proudly Irish, but are also - of course - British citizens. There is much confusion about this - including on Wiki (see entry on Eddie Irvine for example). To avoid confusion it is useful to identify clearly both the Irishness and the British Citizenship. It is factually correct to do so and good encyclopaedic practice. PaddyBriggs 10:47, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't see any confusion other than your edits here and at Eddie Irvine. Mentioning that he was born in Northern Ireland is sufficient to establish his citizenship of the UK. Catchpole 10:53, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Plus, the tricolour paragraph isn't strictly correct. Clarke, Harrington and McGinley were pictured with a tricolour. The tricolour was for Harrington and McGinley, Clarke just happened to be holding it with them. To say he "considers himself Irish and proudly displays the Irish tricolour at events like the Ryder cup" is entirely unverified and point of view. If that paragraph exists at all it should read "Clarke was pictured holding a tricolour at the Ryder Cup with Harrington and McGinley", and nothing else. Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 11:53, 20 February 2007 (UTC) The Tricolour is historically and symbolically meant for all Ireland, Orange and Green, North and South, Darren didn't just happen to be holding it, he chose to. If you chafe at a simple caption, your objectivity is certainly to be questioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.15.132.19 (talk) 07:13, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

The story is that when they were posing for that photograph Darren Clarke (a Northern Irish Protestant) said "You'd better give me the orange bit!", to much laughter all round. 80.176.88.21 (talk) 06:50, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

With respect to Catchpole the place of birth of anybody does not establish their nationality or their citizenship (see Wiki's own entry on the subject of nationality). Mary McAleese, the President of the Republic of Ireland was born in Northern Ireland. Doesn't make her British!! However Darren Clarke presumably has a British Passport and is certainly legally a British subject. But he is also Irish (1) Because Northern Ireland is part of the island of Ireland and (2) Because he has clearly , as others have pointed out, declared himself proud to be Irish (and why not!). PaddyBriggs 17:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the infobox, the nationality should be Northern Ireland as per other golfer articles. They don't British, they say NI, England, Scotland or Wales. A golfer competes for an individual home nation, not the UK. Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 09:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with the last entry. All British sportsmen have "British" as their legal nationality. You cannot have a Scottish or a Northern Irish or a Welsh or an English passport. In addition they may compete for their country of origin/birth in certain tournaments such as the World Cup of Golf where the individual countries of the UK compete under their own name rather than together as "Great Britain and NI". So Mr Clarke's legal nationality is British. That's what it says on his passport. In addition he may compete for Northern Ireland (although actually I don't think that he ever has) just as Monty plays for Scotland or Nick Faldo for England. My amendment to the info box makes this clear. Any visitor to the entry would not be confused if they see against Darren British ( Northern Ireland).

PaddyBriggs 09:49, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Maybe the infobox isn't clear, but my reading is that it is saying who he represents in golf. In this case it is Northern Ireland. Or Scotland for Monty etc. See this or the scoreboard on this page or this or this. It is not stating his actual nationality, of course you can't have a Welsh, Northern Irish, Scottish or English passport. Stu ^{’Bout ye!} 10:23, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

'Darren Clarke presumably has a British Passport'- "Presumably"? Sorry, but your presumptions do not cut it. Internalise this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Attribution#Reliable_sources 89.100.195.42 21:56, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

'All British sportsmen have "British" as their legal nationality.'- Indeed they do. The minor matter of no part of Ireland being a part of Britain now, or ever in history, begs the question: just what has any of this to do with a man born in Ireland? 89.100.195.42 22:04, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

'You cannot have a Scottish or a Northern Irish or a Welsh or an English passport.'-Indeed you cannot, which is why everybody born in Ireland is entitled to an Irish Passport. It would appear that you are struggling to fit Ireland in as a province in your British nationalist framework. Long may it continue! 89.100.195.42 22:04, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Anyone born in Northern Ireland, while they may be entitled to claim an Irish passport, are subjects of the UK and are British unless specifically declared otherwise by revoking their British citizenship. Ben W Bell talk 08:35, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

<reduce indent> Sorry to be facetious, but it's interesting that Gerry Adams is only classified as "Irish" and there aren't any objections to that. I mean, he was even a member of Parliament in Westminster. Let's see... Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness, Bobby Sands.... all good British citizens..... That must make the Provisional IRA a good solid British organisation as it was founded in Belfast and was first headed by a Londoner! Wow! Let's see the pro-British editors go around WP and edit all those pages. Conversely, the Orange Order, Ian Paisley, the Shankhill Road Butchers, and the Lambeg drum should only every be described as Irish? Let's see the pro-Irish editors do that and try to be serious about it. (actually, I think Ian Paisley does call himself Irish and doesn't see it as contradictory with British). The NI situation requires some flexibility in description...maybe you guys should try some of that. Hughsheehy 09:42, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

It is worth noting that the Irish government has redefined the word "Ireland" to mean the state that it governs - that's its official name. Northern Ireland, therefore, is not part of "Ireland" but is its own seperate entity, known as Northern Ireland. Personally, I don't believe that governments have the ability to alter language, but there are those who disagree. TharkunColl 16:22, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Ireland was always its official name. Hughsheehy 00:33, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Not trying to cause offence to anyone, as I know that this can be quite an emotive issue, but how can anyone who is not born on the island of Britain be automatically claimed to be British. Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The name of the state itself differentiates between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Surely this would make someone born in Northern Ireland Northern Irish, Irish and a citizen of the United Kingdom (I know British is often used as a substitute for a citizen of the UK, but it is a factually incorrect description). Persons in Northern Irelad who are decended from Scottish or English planters could accurately be described as British, but that is due to their British ancestry, not their place of birth.

Also, note to TharkunColl, Oireachtas Eireann has not redefined the meaning of the word Ireland. It has stated that in Irish law, the word Ireland is taken to mean the State of Ireland, and not the Island of Ireland. The island is still called Ireland, just not all of it is claimed as part of the State. 77.107.196.242 5 July 2008 01:33

The term British refers to all citizens of the United Kingdom — including Welsh, Scottish, English, and Northern Irish. People from Northern Ireland can choose to be Irish, British or both; this is the position under the respective nationality laws of the two states and was formalised by treaty in the Good Friday Agreement. Darren Clarke is British but he may have chosen, or declared himself, to be Irish. It is, of course, perfectly possible to be both Irish and British. 80.176.88.21 (talk) 17:49, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Irishman

An excerpt of Darren Clarke talking on RTÉ about some golf victory a few years ago - in the Ryder Cup in 2006? - very shortly after his wife died and about how he felt great being "an Irishman" that day was played on RTÉ Radio last weekend. 86.45.61.211 (talk) 19:26, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

flag

flag shown on summary is the ulster banner-this is not an official flag for northern ireland the union flag could be used as a defacto flag — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amazon543 (talk • contribs) 17:52, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

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