Talk:David Cortés (politician)/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Phlsph7 (talk · contribs) 09:41, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

I'll review this one. I hope to have my first comments ready soon. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:41, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

2. Is it verifiable with no original research?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   B. All in-line citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines:

   C. It contains no original research:

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

I had a first look. There are a few points to be addressed but no major problems: some minor changes with the prose, two potentially unreliable sources, one possible factual error, and a few personal details that should be added.

Prose

• In 1980, he became a founding member of the National Confederation of Normalist Students and served as its executive secretary.: is "National Confederation of Normalist Students" the official translation? I searched the expression but couldn't find anything. If there is no official translation, it might be better to use the original title "Confederación Nacional de Estudiantes Normalistas"

• It's a quite literal translation. I've changed it to Normal School Students, which is clearer. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:53, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

• I'm not sure that it should be translated since it is a name and not a description. Are you aware of any Wikipedia guidelines on this issue or how this is handled by other articles? The closest I could find are WP:TRANSLITERATE and Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(use_English)#No_established_usage_in_English-language_sources. They claim that the foreign language conventions should be used if "there are too few reliable English-language sources to constitute an established usage". However, they talk about article titles and not about translations in the content. As I understand them, if we were to create a new article, the title "Confederación Nacional de Estudiantes Normalistas" should be used but I'm no expert on this subject. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:03, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

  Indeed, issues like this are generally more related to the names of articles. For here, I'd expect there to be a bit more leeway for simple translations, else half of the organizations mentioned in this article (Departmental Workers' Center, Marshal Sucre Normal School, Federation of Education Workers of Potosí, etc.) would have to be named in Spanish as I doubt they have established common English names. As it stands, keeping the Spanish name just for the one organization would probably stand out as odd to the reader far more than a wonky translation. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 17:28, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

  I think WP:TRANSLITERATE backs me up here: "In deciding whether and how to translate a foreign name into English, follow English-language usage. If there is no established English-language treatment for a name, translate it if this can be done without loss of accuracy and with greater understanding for the English-speaking reader." Krisgabwoosh (talk) 17:40, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

  I think you have convinced me that, in principle, such translations are acceptable (or, at least, that the philosophy behind such translation is beyond the scope of a GA review). I'm sorry if I'm too picky here but there is still one doubt remaining that the translation is correct. According to the translation here, "normalista" means "student teacher" or "schoolteacher". The examples here translate the expression "estudiantes normalistas" either as "student teachers" or as "college students". So we would have either "National Confederation of Student Teachers" or "National Confederation of College Students". Given the dictionary entry above, I think "student teachers" makes most sense. I don't know if these translations reflect how the expression is used in Bolivian Spanish. Phlsph7 (talk) 18:36, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

  No, you're right, "Student Teachers" fits much better. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:06, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

• ...where he taught at and later directed the Óscar Alfaro School for eighteen years between 1985 and 2003.: remove the "at" after "taught"

• Would that be grammatically correct? Remove "and later directed" and you'd get "where he taught the Óscar Alfaro School". Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:53, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

• It sounds strange to my ears. The direct object of "teach" is usually the person learning and not the location. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:03, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

  I think of it as "Him and I vs. Me and Him" situation. "Me and Him went to..." is incorrect because excluding "Him" gets "Me went to". Same here, where "Taught and directed the school" becomes "Taught the school", which doesn't make sense. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 17:30, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

  In its current form, I think it's correct since we don't have to assume that the verb "teach" has a direct object here. The sentence could be translated as "He taught in La Palca. He directed the Óscar Alfaro School in La Palca". To express that he taught at the Óscar Alfaro School, we might use "He briefly worked as a professor at the Siglo XX National University before settling in La Palca. There, he first taught at the Óscar Alfaro School and later directed it for eighteen years between 1985 and 2003." Phlsph7 (talk) 18:37, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

  Went ahead with your suggested sentence structure. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:08, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

• ...sharing merriment and distributing gifts to children...: Oxford comma after "merriment"

•  Done Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:53, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

• ...for which he was dubbed the "Santa Claus of Potosí".: it might be better to use the Spanish expression since people didn't actually use the term "Santa Claus". You could add the translation in parenthesis so that the average reader can make sense of it: ...he was dubbed "Papá Noel de Potosí" (Santa Claus of Potosí).

• I had considered linking to Père Noël, from where the Spanish Papá Noel derives. The more literal Father Christmas was another term I considered. However, in the end, each of these disparate folkloric beings have effectively amalgamated into one, meaning that you can translate one name into whichever other without any serious confusion. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:53, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

• I think the point here is similar to the earlier point about "Confederación Nacional de Estudiantes Normalistas": should a nickname be translated if the translation is not used in English reliable sources? If the text talked about "Papá Noel" in general (and not as part of the nickname "Papá Noel de Potosí") there would be no problem with the translation. So we don't need to change the other mentions of "Santa Claus", just the nickname. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:03, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

  See above comment about WP:TRANSLITERATE, same logic would apply here. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 17:40, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

  Agreed. Phlsph7 (talk) 18:39, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

• Cortés' personal popularity in the city led him to be put forward...: remove the redundant expression "personal"

•  Done Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:53, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

• Cortés' own popularity, coupled with Joaquino's established political presence in the area,...: remove the redundant expression "own"

•  Done Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:53, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

• ...Cortés served as fourth secretary on the chamber's directive board...: add "the" before "fourth"

•  Done Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:53, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

• Each sentence of the lead uses the verb "serve", which becomes repetitive. Maybe use some synonyms, like "held the position"

• Re-wrote lead. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:53, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

• The new text works well. One small note: in the sentence "...thanks in large part to his personal popularity in the city." remove the redundant expression "personal". Phlsph7 (talk) 09:24, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

   Done Krisgabwoosh (talk) 17:41, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

• His left-wing activism against the dictatorships of the 1970s and '80s led him to join the Communist Party of Bolivia (PCB), an organization with which he became a leader in the public sphere, representing the education and mining sectors.: it might be better to split this into two sentences: "His left-wing activism against the dictatorships of the 1970s and '80s led him to join the Communist Party of Bolivia (PCB). He became one of its leaders in the public sphere, representing the education and mining sectors."

•  Done Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:53, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

• Following his release, Cortés returned to education, briefly working as a professor at the Siglo XX National University before settling in La Palca, where he taught at and later directed the Óscar Alfaro School for eighteen years between 1985 and 2003.: I think two shorter sentences with less gerund constructions would be better: "Following his release, Cortés returned to education. He briefly worked as a professor at the Siglo XX National University before settling in La Palca, where he taught at and later directed the Óscar Alfaro School for eighteen years between 1985 and 2003."

•  Done Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:53, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

• Cortés held the position for four years between 2005 and 2009, during which time he became well known in the city for his tradition of dressing as Santa Claus during the Christmas season, sharing merriment and distributing gifts to children, for which he was dubbed the "Santa Claus of Potosí".: I would also suggest a split here: 'Cortés held the position for four years between 2005 and 2009. During this time, he became well known in the city for his tradition of dressing as Santa Claus during the Christmas season, sharing merriment and distributing gifts to children, for which he was dubbed the "Santa Claus of Potosí"'.

•  Done Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:53, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

• While in the Chamber of Deputies, Cortés served as a leading member of the Parliamentary Network for Children and Adolescents, a legislative body committed to the rights and welfare of the country's youth, and notably continued his longstanding tradition of celebrating Christmas as Santa Claus.: I lost track of what the subject was after the long explanatory clause. What about turning the last clause into a separate sentence: "While in the Chamber of Deputies, Cortés served as a leading member of the Parliamentary Network for Children and Adolescents, a legislative body committed to the rights and welfare of the country's youth. He continued his longstanding tradition of celebrating Christmas as Santa Claus." I also removed the "notably". (see MOS:WTW)

•  Done Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:53, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Sources

• Each paragraph is supported by sources.
• User:Headbomb/unreliable marks one source from blogspot.com as unreliable. It seems that the author of this blog is the politician Adolfo Mendoza, who should count as an reliable source. But if there is an alternative source out there, it might be good to replace it nonetheless.

• The actual article is a mirror of the Chamber of Deputies' official news page. The original link is long dead. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:57, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

• In that case, it should be fine. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:09, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

• I'm not sure whether "oxigeno.bo" should be considered a reliable source. It seems to be not a regular newspaper but merely an online magazine.

• It's a news agency variously cited by other major national outlets, such as Página Siete and El Deber. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 19:57, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

• It's not the best source but it's used for a non-controversial claim so I think it fulfills the minimal requirements. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:09, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

• The other sources are reliable, mainly online versions of newspapers, and three books.
• checking some of the sources:
  • In 1980, he became a founding member of the National Confederation of Normalist Students and served as its executive secretary.: supported by ref 2
  • Shortly thereafter, Potosí Mayor René Joaquino invited Cortés to work in the Mayor's Office as the municipal government's senior official for culture and human development. Cortés held the position for four years between 2005 and 2009, during which time he became well known in the city for his tradition of dressing as Santa Claus during the Christmas season, sharing merriment and distributing gifts to children, for which he was dubbed the "Santa Claus of Potosí".: supported by ref 3 & 4
  • Cortés' own popularity, coupled with Joaquino's established political presence in the area, landed him the victory in the election.: supported by ref 4
  • While in university, Cortés enjoyed a sixteen-year career in professional football, playing as a goalkeeper for River Plate and Independiente Petrolero.: ref 2 talks of 12 years ("Paralelamente, me dediqué al fútbol profesional, durante doce años; fui jugador de River Plate en Sucre y luego, de Independiente Petrolero.")

Did you see this comment? Phlsph7 (talk) 09:09, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Corrected. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 17:43, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

• Electoral history table: supported by ref 11

Others

• WP:EARWIG shows no copyright problems
• The article uses one image published under the "Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 Generic" license.
• The article is relatively short. It covers Cortés' carreer well, but it seems to miss some parts of his personal life. Most importantly would be his death: where did he die, what were the circumstances, etc. Other things that could be included: did he have brothers or sister? Was he married? Did he have children? For example, ref 1 says that he was married and had 4 children.

• Added some information on death and funeral. Regarding his family, I couldn't find anything beyond the fact they existed, which probably isn't enough to dedicate a full section to. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 20:09, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

• You are right, it doesn't merrit it's own section. It might make sense to squeeze in a sentence or two about it but I'm not sure where the best place for this might be. But if there is no good place for it, it wouldn't be too much of a loss if it wasn't mentioned. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:15, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

• There are no edit wars.

Phlsph7 (talk) 16:24, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

• One question: what is the meaning of "circumscription 37"? Do we need to explain this in the article? Phlsph7 (talk) 09:25, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

  Circumscriptions are what Bolivia calls its electoral districts. Probably doesn't need explaining here. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 17:46, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

I think now all points have been addressed. I'll pass it. Thanks for your fast responses and for bearing with me concerning the translation issue. Phlsph7 (talk) 19:44, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.