Talk:De itinere navali

- The description of Hispanic kingdoms is correct. The designation of the Kingdom of Spain as a separate kingdom from the other kingdoms (Navarre, Aragon, Galicia and Portugal) is old.

It was born from the foundation of the suevic Kingdom of Galicia in 413.

a. In Gothic documents:

'De conciliis in GALLICIAE et HISPANIAE regnis. »

("S. Leonis Magni. P. Cacciari Exercitationes in S. Leonis Magnis Opera: De Priscillianistarum Haeresi et Historia Liber Unicus", Patrologia, La Barriere d'Enfer, Paris, 1846, p. 1044).

'Sancta synodus episcoporum totius HISPANIAE, GALLIAE et GALLAETIAE in urbe Toletana præcepto principis Reccaredi. »

("Chronicon Ioannis Biclarensis [y. 590]", Universität Giessen Digital version: Thomas Gloning, XII/2002).

b. 8th century

« Adrianus papa, sanctæ catholicæ atque apostolicæ primæque pontifex sedis, dilectissimis fratribus et consacerdotibus nostris, GALLICIIS SPANIISque ecclesiis praesidentibus, in roseo Christi sanguine salutem »

("Epistola Hadriani I. Papae ad Episcopos Hispaniae contra Elipandum Toletanae Sedis Episcopum [y. 793-794]", MGH, Concilia, Societas Aperiendis Fontibus, T. II, Concilia Aevi Karolini I, Albertus Werminghoff, Hannover & Leipzig, 1906, p. 122).

c. 9th century

« Adefonsus [...] regni totius GALLETIAE et seu HISPANIAE suscepi culmen [...]. »

(Henrique Flórez & Manuel Risco: "España Sagrada. Antigüedades de la ciudad y Santa Iglesia de Lugo. Memoria de los insignes monasterios de S. Julián de Samos, y S. Vicente de Monforte...[y. 832]", vol. XL, Oficina de la Viuda e Hijo de Marín, Madrid, 1796, pp. 369-373).

« [...] persecutionis in partibus SPANIE atque GALLECIE fuerunt multas urbes atque provintias destructas. »

("Liber Fidei Sanctae Bracarensis Ecclesiae, [y. 840]", (ed.) P. Avelino de Jesús da Costa, Edição crítica, 2 vols., Assembleia Junta Distrital de Braga, Braga, 1965-1978, pp. 33-35).

d. 10th century

« In quem finem etiam Adefondum Magnum GALLAECIAE Regem per literas interpellavit, ad submittendos sibi EX HISPANIA equos idoneos adversus eosdem hostes »

(Augustinus Sartorius: "Compendium Annalium Ecclesiasticorum Eminentissimi Cardinalis Baronii", T. III, Ed. Pauli Lochneri, Praga, 1736).

« Marinus Columbi filius EX GALLAECIA, matre HISPANA »

(Liutprandus Cremonensis: "Chronicon Luitprandi". DCCCCXX. DCCCLXXXII).

e. 11th century

« Reges HYSPANI simul omnes GALLICIANI, unus post unum, gaudent offerre tributum »

(Benzo Albensis: "Ad Heinricum IV. Imperatorem. Lib. VI.5", MGH (SS rer. Germ.), Separatim, (ed.) Hahnsche Buchhandlung, Hannover, 1996, p. 556). (Benzonis Episcopi Albensis: "Ad Heinricum IV Imperatoris. Lib. VI", MGH, T. XI, (ed.) Georgius Heinricus Pertz, Hannover, 1854, p. 665).

« SPANLAND, GALIZULAND or GALIZU, SKARLAND »

(peoples of the Iberian Peninsula according to the Viking geography)

« Respondet ei se velle apostolicae sedis decreta de celebrandis Ecclesiae officiis ab illis custodiri; ideo monet ut ea in HISPANIA et GALLICIA servari curet. »

(Gregorius PP. VII: "Epistola XVIII. Ad Simeonem episcopum in Hispania", y. 1076).

« Regnante rege Adefonso in TOLETO et ISPANIA et genero eius comite Regimundo in GALLECIA et in Sanctarem. »

« Regnante Adephonso victoriosissimo rege in TOLETO & in HISPANIA & GALLECIA. » (Celanova, y. 1088)

f. 12th century

« Ego Urracha, Dei gratia totius HISPANIAE et GALLECIAE Regina conf.- ego Adefonsus huius reginae filius HISPANIAE et GALLECIAE Rex et Toletani imperatoris domini Adefonsi nepos conf. [...]. »

(Manuel Lucas Álvarez: "El Monasterio de San Martiño Pinario de Santiago de Compostela en la Edad Media [y. 1115]", Galicia Medieval: Fontes. Publicacións do Seminario de Estudos Galegos, 6, Ediciós do Castro, Sada, 2003, pp. 184-188).

«Temporibus Didaci, archiepiscopi Iacobite, et Adefonsi, imperatoris YSPANIE et GALLETIE, et Calixti pape. [...].»

("Codex Calixtinus. Lib. V.v", y. 1130-1145).

« GUASCONIAM, HISPANIAM atque GALAECIAM ab idolatris expugnavit, ac sepulcrum sancti Jacobi hodierno honori restituit.»

("Breviarium", (ed.) Prosper Guéranguer: L'Année Liturgique. Le Temps de Noël, T. II, typographica H. Oudin, París-Potiers, 1897, p. 500).

« omnibus pontificibus HISPANIAE atque GALLICIAE. »

("Gratianus. Concordia discordantium canonum. Distinctio LXIII. Cap. XXV: In electione episcoporum principis desideratur assensus. Item ex Consilio Toletano XII", Patrologia Latina, vol. 187, J.-P. Migne, apud J.-P- Migne Editorem, París, 1861, pp. 336-337). (Aemilius Ludwig Richter: "Corpus juris canonici: Decretum Gratiani", Pars I, Volumen 1, sumtibus Bernh. Tauchnitz jun., Leipzig, 1839, p. 208). (Giovanni Battista Braschi: "De libertate Ecclesiæ. Clementi XI, Cap. XX", vol. 2, Lyon, 1718, p. 244).

« XIII. PASCHALIS II, PAPA. De illicita copulatione. [Epístola ad Principes Milites et caeteros laicos per HISPANIAM et GALLITIAM Anno MCIX]. »

(E. FLÓREZ: España Sagrada XX, 90 fol. 76).

g. 13th century

« [...] Quibus imperator excitatus et ammonitus atque promissione apostolica fretus, coadunatis exercitibus multis expugnare gentes HYSPANIE et GALICIE aggressus est. »

("Annales Marbacenses", MGH (SS rer. Germ.), (ed.) Hermannus Bloch, Hannover & Leipzig, 1907, pp. 13-14).

«Et ita domnus Papa voluntate illius concilii clericorum et maxime instigantium et instigatu archiepiscopi GALICIE et clericorum YSPANIE, LOMBARDORUM aliarumque partium sentenciam depositionis contra imperatorem protulit ut inferius denotatur.»

("Annales aevi Suevici: Annales Placentini Gibellini. A. 1245", MGH (SS rer. Germ.), T. XVIII, Georgius Heinricus Pertz, Hannover, 1863, p. 489-490).

« In SAXONIA [...]. Item per totam GOTHIAM. Item in HYSPANIA [...]. Item in AQUITANIA [...]. Item in GALICIA [...]. »

("Chronica universalis Turicensis. Ex chronica universali Turicensi saeculo XIII. Exeunte conscripta excerpta", y. 1285-1287).

« Ipse antem Karolus imperator ipsi ecclesie Romane munere imperiali ducatum Spoletanum et Beneventanum tradidit. Rediens igitur Tuscaniam, Lombardiam, Alamanniam, Saxoniam, YSPANIAM, GALECIAM suo subiugavit imperio. »

("Richeri Gesta senonienses ecclesiae", (ed.) Georg Waitz, MGH, Scriptores (in folio), SS [Gesta saec. XIII], T. XXV, Hannover, 1880, p. 272).

« Il y avoit quatre chemins, dont l'un alloit en FRANCE, l'autre en ESPAGNE, l'autre en GALICE, et le quatrième en GASCOGNE. »

("Histoire des quatre fils Aymon très nobles et très vaillans chevaliers", H. Launette, Paris, 1883, p.103).

h. 15th century

« in GALYS [...], in NAVERN [...], in PORTYNGALE [...], in SPAYNE [...]. » (Anonymus: "Croxton Play of the Sacrament [ca. 1491]", (ed.) John T. Sebastian, Medieval Institute Publications, Michigan, 2012).

« O mon très doux frère Saturnin, souvenez-vous que la moisson est abondante et que les moissonneurs sont en petit nombre. Allez dans l'Aquitaine et dans les Gaules, dans l'ESPAGNE et dans la GALICE, allez prêcher dans ces contrées la parole du salut et l'auguste mystère de la Très Sainte Trinité. »

(Abbé Maxime Latou: "Vie de saint Saturnin", Ed. L. Cluzon, Toulouse, 1864, p. 213).

- CARTOGRAPHY is abundant in this regard, differentiating the peninsulars kingdoms and Spain or Galicia like a privative kingom: cf. sawley map, Beato de San Andrés de Arroyo, Mappa mundi of Andreas Walsperger, Liber Floridus, Giovanni Leardo, Mapa světa Heinricha I z Mainz, Mappa Mundi Borgia ou Tavola di Velletri, Vesconte, Rudimentum Novitorum Lucas Brandis, Hondius, Description Nouvelle D'Europe, Europae Tabula-Munster Map, Guiseppe Rosaccio's map of Europe, Giovanni Battista Vrients, Hispania Nova Tabula - Munster's Geographia, Hispaniae Nova Descriptio, Rudimentorum cosmographicorum Ioan. Honteri Coronensis, psalter-map, royal ms, Samuel Purchas, Spain & Portugal - Munster's Cosmography, Tabula Nova Hispaniae, etc. and Portolanos of the 14, 15 & 16 century.

- ABOUT KINGDOMS AND KINGS.

The kingdom of Asturias and León is only known in Castilian historiography. Chroniclers such as Bishop Pelayo of Oviedo, who falsified documents and interpolated the alfonsine chronicles in order to defend their dioceses, claimed by Braga, Lugo, Toledo and Burgos; Lucas de Tuy who used the above sources in addition to creating others to justify Berenguela of Castile and King Ferdinand III, after assassination, according letter of the powerful Castilian family of Lara, planned by Berenguela and the Archbishop of Toledo Rodrigo Jiménez de Rada of the legitimate King of Castile, Henry I, of thirteen years, and usurp the throne of León (not so the throne of Galicia); or The Archbishop of Toledo Rodrigo Jiménez de Rada, who also used the sources of the Bishop Pelayo of Oviedo, known as "el Falsario", in addition to falsifying others to give the newborn kingdom of Castile an antiquity that it did not have in its disputes for the primacy of its church, which never obtained, with Braga and St. James of Compostela.

The kingdoms of Asturias and León are not named in any papal or church document, in any foreign chronicle, neither in cartography nor in any literary work. Nor are they known to the Arabs of the Iberian Peninsula.

Only one kingdom is mentioned in medieval documentation: Gallecia, Gallicia, Galletia or Gallitia, being Oviedo and León (and others like Carrión, Sahagún, Sto. Domingo de la Calzada, Saldaña, Luna, Zamora, etc.) cities located "in territorio Galleciae".

There are hundreds of medieval documents that speak of kings of Galicia. Starting with all the Suevic kings, the Gothic kings Recesvinto and Witiza, the non-existent Pelayo:

e.g. the chronicler of Ferdinand II of Aragon:

« [...] fueron grandes tiempos posseidas por muchos Reyes Godos, en cuyo derecho sucedió PELAYO PRIMER REY DE GALICIA [...] »

(Jerónimo Zurita: "Historia del Rey don Hernando el Católico: de las empresas y ligas de Italia", Libro Pimero, Ed. Herederos de Pedro Lanaja y Lamarca, Zaragoza, 1670).

And all the other kings until the kingdom of Galicia obtained its privative character after the IV Lateran Council (1215), not accepting the primacy of Toledo and, therefore, not paying homage to the Castilian kings, which will remain until 1833 (except for the temporary usurpation of the crown by the Catholic Monarchs and their son, which will be returned by Emperor Charles V of Ghent):

e.g. all Alfonsos (two latin and one arabian examples of each):

- Alfonso I

« Mortuus est quoque hoc anno ALFONSUS SEU ALFONSI ADELPHONSUS GALLICIAE REX, cognomento Catholicus, vir piisimus; cuius in obitu auditæ divinae laudes, in eum iactas criminationes de severitate, de nece fraterna, melius quam codices omnes refutarunt. »

(Philippi Brietii: "Annales mundi sive Chronicon universale. Partis Secundae", T. V, apud Conrad Monath, Viennae, 1727).

« Adhfunsh, malik Jillīquiyya »

(Ibn Hayyan).

- Alfonso II

« Hadefuns, rex Gallaeciae »

("Hermanni Contracti Monachi Reichenaugensis Chronicon ex inedito hucusque Codice Augiensi, una cum ejus vita et continuatione a Bertholdo, eius discipulo, scripta. Subiicitur Chronicon Peter Shusanum ineditum", Patrologia Latina, vol. 143, J. P. Migne, Paris, 1853).

« Ipso denique anno rex Gallitianus Adefonsus Sarracenos populatus est magna infestatione [...] »

("Ademari Historiarum. Liber III", MGH, vol. IV, Georgius Heinricus Pertz, Hannover, 1841).

«Adfuns 'azîm/malik Yillîqiyyâ»

(Al-Nuwayri, Dikr bilad al-Andalus, Ibn Hayyan).

- Alfonso III

« Hadefuns rex Galletiae Karolo prius munera preciosa itemque manubias suas pro munere misit... Adelfonsus Galliciae Rex amicitia devinctus erat Carolo »

("Hermanni Contracti Monachi Reichenaugensis Chronicon ex inedito hucusque Codice Augiensi, una cum eius vita et continuatione a Bertholdo, eius discipulo, scripta. Subiicitur Chronicon Peter Shusanum ineditum", Patrologia Latina, vol. 143, J. P. Migne, Paris, 1853/ "Hermanni Augiensis Chronicon", MGH, vol. V, Georgius Heinricus Pertz, Hannover, 1844).

« Carolus rex princeps et Adefonsus rex Galliciarum, filius Ordinis regis, contemporanei fuerunt amicitiasque maximas, dum vixerunt, ad invicem habuerunt »

("Liber Historiae Francorum (add. B 2c3)", MGH, Scriptorum, II, Hannover 1888).

« Adfuns ibn Urdun, 'azîm Yillîqiyyâ »

(Ibn Hayyan).

- Alfonso IV (king of Terra de Foris 926-929; king of Galicia 929-931)

« Facta carta presentis donacionis, era DCCCC. LXXXV, regnante me Rege Garsia Sancionis in Pampilona, in Alava et in Nagera, comite Fortunio in Aragon, Adefonsus in Gallecia, [---] »

(Antonio Ubieto Arteta: "Cartulario de San Juan de la Peña I", Textos Medievales 6, Valencia, 1962, p. 53).

- Alfonso V

« Alfonsus rex Gallitianus »

(Ademarus Cabannensis monachus, "Chronicon [ab originibus Francorum ad a. 1028], III.70", MGH SS, vol. IV, Georgius Heinricus Pertz, Hannover, 1841).

« Interim Fredinandus Sanciam filiam Adefonsi Galleciensis regis nobilissimam puellam, Veremudo fratre regales sororis nuptias exhibente, in coniugium accepit »

("Historia silense", [ed.] Francisco Santos Coco, JAEIC, Madrid, 1921, p. 64).

- Alfonso VI

« Ildefonsum Galleciae regem [...] Ildefonso regi Galliciae »

("B. URBANII II PAPAE. EPISTOLAE ET PRIVILEGIAE. VI. Urbani II epistola ad Ildefonsum Galleciae regem: - Toletanam, y. 1088", Patrologia Latina. vol. 151, apud J.-P. Migne successores, Paris, 1853).

« alterius, quae Aldefonso Galliciae regi per nuncios iurata, virgineam mortem impetravit a Deo »

(Willelmus Malmesburiensis: "Gesta regum Anglorum. LIB. III, DE ADVENTU NORMANNORUM IN ANGLIAM, 276", Patrologia Latina, vol. 179, apud J.-P. Migne successores, Paris, 1899).

(Willelmus Malmesburiensis: "Chronicle of the kings of England. DAUGHTERS OF WILLIAM I", by J. A. Giles, ed. Henry G. Bohn, London, 1847).

- Alfonso VII

« Hanc solemnitatem celeberrime observabat Adelfonsus rex Galliciae; quia corpus apostoli III Kal. Ianuarii susceperat Galecia»

(Helinandus Frigidi Montis: "Chronicon. LIBER XLVIII", Patrologia Latina, vol. 212, J.-P. Migne, Paris 1855).

In his will.

« imperante Adefonsus imperator in Gallecia »

(Monastery of Caaveiro, year 1154).

- Alfonso VIII (falsified as IX in Castilian historiography).

« Anno Domini 1224. In octabis vero sequentis pentecostes Iohannes rex Ierosolimitanus a Sancti Iacobi Turonis est regressus cum filia (Berengaria) regis Galliciensis, quam in illis partibus duxerat in uxorem »

("Ex Chronico Sancti Martini Turonensi", MGH, vol. XXVI, Societas Aperiendis Fontibus Rerum Germanicarum Medii Aevi, Hannover, 1882).

« Rogerus de Houeden anno M.C.XCI. de Caelestini III. PP. exordiis. Eodem anno fuit laborandum eidem Caelestino Papæ in dissolutione matrimonii inter Reges Hispaniarum; cum videlicet Sancius Rex Portugallensis dedit Tarsiam filiam suam Adelfonso Regi Galliciae, nepoti suo; in uxorem; de qua genuit tres filios »

(Ioanne Iacobo Chifletio: "Vindiciæ Hispanicae; in quibus arcana regia, publico pacis bono, luce donantur", Ed. ex Officina Platiniana Balthasaris Moreti, 1647).

- Alfonso X was not king of Galicia, but his firstborn son Sancho with the help of the king of France and that of Portugal.

- Alfonso XI was King of Castile and King of Galicia-León (using two different seals). The kingdom of Galicia has the Chancellery of León.

Other times they were called emperors of Galicia, e.g.:

- Ramiro I

« Ranimirus rex Obeto sibe Galletia imperium suum »

(A. Ubieto Arteta, "Documentos reales", Monasterio de San Juan de la Peña, A. 1030, n° 32).

- Vermudo III

« imperator domnus Bermudus in Gallicia »

(R. Jimeno Aranguren & A. Pescador Medrano: "Colección documental de Sancho Garcés III", Monasterio de San Juan de la Peña, A. 1030, n° 42).

- Fernando I

« Fredelando in imperio Gallicie »

(P. Blanco Lozano: "Colección diplomática de Fernando I (1037-1065)", Archivo Histórico Diocesano, León, 1987, doc. n° 25).

- Urraca

« ego infanta Urraca tocius Galletie emperatrix »

(Reguero Astray, M., Rodríguez Prieto, M.A.; Romero Portilla, P: "Documentos medievales del Reino de Galicia. Doña Urraca (1095-1126)", Santiago de Compostela, 2002. cathedral of Lugo, y. 1107).

- Alfonso VII.

« imperante Adefonsus imperator in Gallecia »

(Monastery of Caaveiro, year 1154).

Devorix (talk) 08:08, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

See WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. You are in the wrong place. Srnec (talk) 17:49, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

I think not. The chronicler is not wrong. You are wrong. The examples are obvious (almost all the examples have been taken from secondary sources). To consider an error of the chronicler is a falsehood. To contradict all chronicles, papal writings, literary texts and cartography is to manipulate information.

Example of secondary source:

« Rogerus de Houeden anno M.C.XCI. de Caelestini III. PP. exordiis. Eodem anno fuit laborandum eidem Caelestino Papæ in dissolutione matrimonii inter Reges Hispaniarum; cum videlicet Sancius Rex Portugallensis dedit Tarsiam filiam suam Adelfonso Regi Galliciae, nepoti suo; in uxorem; de qua genuit tres filios »

(Ioanne Iacobo Chifletio: "Vindiciae Hispanicae; in quibus arcana regia, publico pacis bono, luce donantur", Ed. ex Officina Platiniana Balthasaris Moreti, 1647).

https://gl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reino_de_Galicia https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reino_da_Galiza — Preceding

There is no European or Arab coetaneous reference about the existence of the kingdoms of Asturias or that of León. The kingdom of Spain corresponds to al-Andalus, a notion distinct from the geographical of Spain = Iberian Peninsula.

Neither Spain nor León participated in any crusades, Where is Leon and Spain here?

• «Qua sponsione arrectis animis omnium, designata sunt ad presens in Domini miliciam circiter 100000 virorum, ex Aquitania scilicet atque Normannia, Anglia, Scotia et Hibernia, Britannia, Galicia, Wasconia, Gallia, Flandria, Lotharingia, caeterisque gentibus christianis, quarum nunc minime occurrunt vocabula.»

("Chronica et annales aevi Salici. Ekkehardi Uraugensis chronica [a. 1095]", (ed.) Georgius Heinricus Pertz, MGH, (SS rer. Germ. in Folio) VI, Hannover, 1844, p. 213).

• «Haec fama commovit diversos populos et ignotos, scilicet ex Aquitania atque Nortmannia, Anglia, Scotia, Hibernia, Brittannia, Galicia, Gaschonia, Gallia, Flandria, Lotharingia, ceterosque populos non solum terram, sed et insulas maris ac ultimum oceanum inhabitantes.»

("Ottonis episcopi Frisingensis Chronica sive Historia de duabus civitatibus. Lib. VII.5-10", (ed.) Adolf Hofmeister, MGH, (SS rer. Germ.) in usum scholarum separatim 45, Hannover, 1912, p. 311).

But don’t worry, you can keep keeping your mistake, not the chronicler’s, we’re making our own version.

unsigned comment added by Devorix (talk • contribs) 18:33, 27 November 2023 (UTC)