Talk:Dean Martin/Archive 1

Archive 1

Opening comment

Someone rewrote the Dean Martin article with typos and other mistakes (given name "Dine Crochets"). Article edited for syntax, punctuation, and links. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.12.116.67 (talk • contribs) .

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On a whole, this is a pretty good article. However, it needs be be rewritten in a more encyclopaedic and less tabloid style. Here are some examples of parts that need work:

Martin attributed his long-term TV popularity to the fact that he never put on airs or pretended to be anyone else onstage, but that's not necessarily true.

It's also no secret that Martin was sipping apple juice, not booze, most of the time onstage.

But Martin courageously kept his private life to himself,

--Saforrest 21:07, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Saforrest is right, in addition there are some important parts missing. How did he meet Frank Sinatra for example. ReverendG 03:46, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

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Removed a sentence from the "Politics" section which stated that his family supported John McCain in the 2008 election. Given that Dean Martin died in 1995, I didn't see any relevance to noting who his survivors supported in this venue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WaterlilyLady (talk • contribs) 15:36, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Corageous

Hi:

Yep. If he's a private man, keeping his health woes to himself wouldn't have been corageous, it would have been second nature. Still, most people whether celebrity or not eventually have to make some sort of announcement to family and friends about major health issues. Perhaps it might be better to say 'holding true to his private nature he...' et cetera.

Dean's Drinking

I removed the ridiculous caption about Dean pursuing his "favorite hobby" as POV and completely unsourced.

In fact, I think there needs to be some sourced mention in this article concerning the majority of Martin's drunken persona being completely an act with apple juice frequently posing as booze in his act. Will see what I can find of this account and while Martin certainly drank during performances he was as sober as can be and the drunk act was all part of his schtick. --Wgfinley 22:56, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

You're right, the majority of Dean's drinking was an act used by him to live up to his lovable drunk persona. I wish I had some sources to give you, but good luck. ReverendG 02:07, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I was in the audience in Hollywood, where Dean was in a TV show with Bob Hope. He was so plastered he could hardly stand, and was entirely disrupting the shooting. Maybe that was an "act", but nobody on the set seemed to think it was funny.

67.169.126.203 (talk) 09:41, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

The advertisement for the Dean Martin Biography on Biography Chanel UK always mentioned that he often drank apple juice and wasn't fond of whiskey. Any help?

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In the late 70's I worked part time for a guy named David Robertson-Inches who had the security account for Dean Martin. Dean was living in a rented home on a hill in Beverly hills with his long time Business manager and close friend Mort Viner. Dean drank from sunrise to sunset.Two large cabinets were full of Chivals Reagal,another Heinken one more Michelobe. Mort drank as well, you could get a hernia carrying out the trash.Dean had live in cook named Hilda she was Cordon Blu trained,many times he could not eat(alcohol) and there were 2:00 am Hot Turkey sandwich runs. Dean was a kind and good man, from what I could see,and in my experience of him. Dean did have a terrible alcohol problem,at least when I knew him. and this bit just doesn't belong in an encyclopedia:Stephen Echard Musgrave (talk) 03:44, 27 January 2008 (UTC) Steve em

"Back in the old days, Dino would have laughed, cleaned himself up, and then accepted the "invitation" to go out and knock back a few"

jesus... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.135.160.247 (talk • contribs)

Someone needs to nail down this "apple juice vs. hard liquor" thing. One part of the article says he was drinking apple juice on stage. Then, another part of the article quotes Phyllis Diller claiming he really was drinking alcohol. The Diller quote has no citation. And why should we accept Phyllis Diller as the final word on this? Are we to believe she has an encyclopedic knowledge of Dean Martin's drinking habits while performing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.131.142.97 (talk) 06:48, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Check out the A&E biography on DM. His long-time producer and friend Greg Garrison--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Garrison --stated that he never saw Martin drunk although he did drink. Martin had a contract w/ NBC that allowed him to rehearse and tape his show in one day. Garrison stated that Martin would fill a highball glass half full of liquor and half full of ice and sip on it all through rehearsal. He would do the same thing during the taping. As Johnny Carson said about this 1978 appearance by Martin on Carson's show -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPxb-HkEQRA -- "That is called developing a style that you can work forever,and, boy, does it work for you.98.20.251.87 (talk) 18:06, 13 March 2013 (UTC)johncheverly 18:37, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Needs A Re-Write

This article is pretty un-encyclopaedic, seemingly written by a fan rather than from someone with a neutral POV - for example an exclamation mark should NEVER be used except where part of a quote. The article doesn't really touch on his days with the Rat Pack and his relationship with Sinatra and Davis Jnr. There are also far too many assumptions and as the tag at the top of the article says, not enough references and substantiations. A pity given the cultural icon status of Dean Martin.

Agreed on all points. This needs to be flagged for a comprehensive scholarly re-write.

Agreed and done. Comments such as "Hollywood had never seen anything like Martin and Lewis" are straight hype. Rather than adding to their reputation, it's more likely to convince the reader that the article is playing fast and lose with the facts.

67.169.126.203 (talk) 09:35, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

This does indeed need a re-write...this is from the section on Dean and Lewis, last paragrah. "Lewis had no trouble maintaining his film popularity alone, but Martin, unfairly regarded by much of the public and the motion picture industry as something of a spare tire, found the going hard." Now it says "unfairly regarded" isnt that something of a biased opinion? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.255.46.89 (talk) 16:45, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Speakeasy croupier

The article says Martin "served as a speakeasy croupier." The "croupier" article refers to someone who works in a casino. What is a speakeasy croupier? Pha telegrapher 20:58, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Many speakeasies were not just places to drink illegally, but also places to gamble illegally. And a few other things as well. wikipediatrix 21:17, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm more concerned with the fact that the "Mafia connections" precedes every other section about his career. It may be giving the sensational book extra publicity -- but I think editorially it's in the wrong place (and possibly shouldn't even be in there at all). Faulknerfan (talk) 19:01, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

If the Mafia didn't want to be associated with Deano, they would have already removed or edited this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.113.49.126 (talk) 18:14, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Picture

Where is the picture from, what movie it is from etc.... (Out of interest)-C_falco-14:34 GMT

Yeah, I don't think that picture is really representative of his whole career, and would recommend a different one. Faulknerfan (talk) 19:00, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Are you serious?

The end of the trivia section said that Dean Martin was the only person to be successful in recording, film, nightclub performances, and television.

I'm assuming everyone here knows who Frank Sinatra is, right? Sinatra earned Grammys, an Oscar, and put Dean Martin on the map - without Sinatra, there wouldn't be a Dino, but without Dino, there would still be a Sinatra.

Understand that I'm a huge Dino fan, but seriously - this has to be a joke. I deleted it. ~~emailnuevo

-Edit-

I don't get what this comment is about. Saying Dino was successful at many different facets of show business is in no way an insult to Sinatra. It's just a trivial fact. Dino did alot of stuff really well. Frank while, a superior singer and actor, in the opinion of many, myself included, simply did not pursue as many facets of show business as his buddy did. When did Sinatra ever have his own TV show? That's not to say he couldn't have had one... but to my recollection he did not, while Dino did, and quite a successful one at that, as well as movies, songs, radio broadcasts, and of course, the stage act. And Dino, while perhaps not to the degree he was, would still have been famous without Frank. He started out without him with Lewis, and made many movies 'Rio Bravo, The Young Lions'... etc, before the Rat Pack boom in the early 60s even started. Frank in no way made Dino, as Dino didn't make Frank. They just complimented each other very, very well.

Bill M

Frank Sinatra had two TV series. One was for CBS circa 1952, before his big comeback in "From Here to Eternity." The show was produced by Jackie ("Valley of the Dolls") Susann's husband, Irving Mansfield. It didn't last long. After Frank's big comeback, he had another variety show for ABC in 1957. This failed also. On the other side of the coin, Frank's later TV specials earned raves and Emmys. It would certainly be true to say that Sinatra had a long association with television and was successful. But no, not as successful as Dean in that respect.

Professor Von Pie 02-02-08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Professor Von Pie (talk • contribs) 20:33, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Citations & References

See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <ref(erences/)> tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 04:43, 1 February 2008 (UTC) Your right Sinatra had a couple of shows, but they failed and were canceled. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.195.210.186 (talk) 23:36, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

This page has had a call for citations for over two years, and still most of it is unsupported. Can anyone make an argument for not beginning to cut unsupported material? ThtrWrtr (talk) 01:37, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

All rght, two months later with no reply, and so I am going to begin to remove material that has been waiting for two years for references. ThtrWrtr (talk) 08:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Simpsons

This page was just mentioned on Simpsons. It referred to how hard Dean Martin worked at his craft, which contradicted Homer. Homer said not to worry that they would change Wikipedia when they got home. Might be some vandalism; people should keep an eye on the page. Skafkas (talk) 00:10, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I just protected the page.Balloonman (talk) 00:20, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I have unprotected it per WP:PROT#Semi-protection. Stifle (talk) 11:38, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

(squints gravely) We'll change a lot of things when we get home. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.139.29.121 (talk) 09:51, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

ROFL! 68.185.167.117 (talk) 20:44, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Birthdate

There seems to be discreptency about his date of birth between June 7 and June 17.

• Stephen Holden (December 26, 1995, corrected December 28, 1995). "Dean Martin, Pop Crooner And Comic Actor, Dies at 78". New York Times. Retrieved 2008-05-31. The obituary also misstated his birth date; it was June 17, 1917, not June 7. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)

- the cite web includes a correction at the end of the article dealing with the mistake about the date as well as a few other mistakes in the original obit. Creol (talk) 05:30, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Death

In the article it says: "It was widely believed, and perpetuated by Jeanne herself, that she was by his side at the time of his death. However, she was giving her annual Christmas party into the late hours of the night and therefore was at her home with her daughter, Deana until about 4 a.m., with Dean having died about 3:15 am. Deana has attested to this on many occasions, including in her biography of her father." This correction is illogical, as Deana is not Jeanne's daughter, but Dean's first wife's daughter. Therefore, the passage needed to be corrected. -- Sinatra (talk) 22:22, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Very Interested

Who were his parents? Did he have siblings?Llfrice (talk) 22:43, 17 August 2008 (UTC)Llfrice

As much as I love old Dino

The article is fill of well-intentioned superlatives that damage its credibility.

• His role in The Young Lions truly the role of the decade
• Their agent, Abby Greshler, negotiated for them one of Hollywood's best deals.
• Was one of the smoothest comics around. Suavely hitting on beautiful women with hilarious remarks that would get anyone else slapped
• His famous roasts.

The kernels of truth are there but stuff like this needs to be toned down. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.157.184.159 (talk) 03:08, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

There was an old black and white movie on channel 32.3 portland, oregon late night 2-4-2013 in which I am sure I saw a very early Dean Martin play a supporting role as a exconvict who pretended to be a preacher in order to get what he wanted from people. His character started when he was in prison and was cell mates with a man sentenced to death for killing two men while he was robbing a bank. The death role man was the father of two children during the depression. He had stolen money and given $10,000 to the children to hide. Martin gets out of prison and goes after the two children and the widow to get the money. He sings religious songs in this movie. Since the movie had already started when I began watching it, I missed the name of the movie and the actor credits. It may be 30's or 40's vintage. The movies listed on Wikipedia are all color movies. I don't see a black and white. Cjwojahn (talk) 17:59, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

You are obviously thinking of the 1955 movie "The Night of the Hunter" starring Robert Mitchum and Shelly Winters and directed by Charles Laughton. Dean Martin was not in that one. There is a Wikipedia page for this movie. 12.167.240.235 (talk) 16:43, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Just ONE photo??

The article is about Dean Martin, its lengthy, and there's only one photo. We need a few more. Come on --RyanTee82 (talk) 09:21, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Moonstruck

Didn't they use Dean Martin's recording of "That's Amore" for the theme of the movie Moonstruck? FatBear1 (talk) 01:37, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Indirectly verifiable

The Rat Pack were legendary for their Las Vegas performances, which were almost never preannounced. For example, the marquee at the Sands Hotel might read DEAN MARTIN---MAYBE FRANK---MAYBE SAMMY. Las Vegas rooms were at a premium when the Rat Pack would appear, with many visitors sleeping in hotel lobbies or cars to get a chance to see the three men together. Their act (always in tuxedo) consisted of each singing individual numbers, duets and trios, along with much seemingly improvised slapstick and chatter. In the socially-charged 1960s, their jokes revolved around adult themes, such as Sinatra's infamous womanizing and Martin's legendary drinking, as well as many at the expense of Davis's race and religion. Davis famously practiced Judaism and used Yiddish phrases onstage, eliciting much merriment from both his stage-mates and his audiences.[citation needed] It was all good-natured male bonding, never vicious, rarely foul-mouthed,[citation needed] and the three had great respect for each other. The Rat Pack was largely responsible for the integration of Las Vegas. Sinatra and Martin steadfastly refused to appear anywhere that barred Davis, forcing the casinos to open their doors to African-American entertainers and patrons, and to drop restrictive covenants against Jews.[citation needed]

This section can only be verified by actions. As all three men are dead, the subject becomes legendary. In life, Frank fought hard for Sammy's equal rights. The times being what they were, the "white" men picked on the black man in comedy routines that would be considered in poor taste today. The only way to verify the nature of their comedy is to listen to their live albums if you can find one. Frank and Deano, being Italian were not as "white" as WASPs, and were "second class whites" themselves.

In life blacks could not even stay in the hotels where they performed. Frank would not perform in a hotel that wouldn't let Sammy stay. Younger readers will not understand segregation and racism, but Frank at least fought hard for civil rights using his power as a performer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.113.49.126 (talk) 18:12, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

How can his death be from three things?

Martin is in the Categories: Deaths from emphysema | Deaths from lung cancer | Deaths from respiratory failure. Unless this guy had three lives, or nobody was sure, it would make sense to pick at least one or two, but three?! --Leahtwosaints (talk) 08:21, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from GrayFoxDown, 25 July 2010 Re: Dean Martin article

An italian friend told me that Dean Martins father was an italian colonel called john Martin.

John Martin went with Custer to the Big Horn battle. Do you know anything about this story? Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.61.45.94 (talk) 08:33, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

{{editsemiprotected}} Please change "60th birthday celebration" (it's erroneous) because Davis' birthday was December 8, 1925; in any event, he would've been 64, not 60, in 1990. GrayFoxDown (talk) 18:45, 25 July 2010 (UTC) In May 1990, he attended Sammy Davis. Jr's 60th birthday celebration (only a few weeks before Davis died from throat cancer)

Even though you didn't specify replacement text for the change, I attempted to fix the sentence. From the timing, it would appear the reference should have been to Davis' 60th anniversary celebration. I couldn't locate any reliable sources for exact dates, but it seems the show was produced in late 1989, aired in mid-February 1990, and featured half of Hollywood. If someone can fine-tune things a bit, it would help. Fat&Happy (talk) 22:52, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Years active

I changed the dates in "Years active" from "1946-1984" to "1939-1990", relying on Nick Tosches' biography Dino, pp. 82 and 457. Sinatra (talk) 09:42, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

American Tenors?

Quite obviously a baritone. If you're not sure, don't guess, it doesn't work when you do it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.27.48.162 (talk) 09:42, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

"crafty anecdotes" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.42.211.39 (talk) 03:52, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Fallout: New Vegas

I believe this game has many references to Dean Martin songs. Can someone add them or make the section in question more general? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.136.136.4 (talk) 11:00, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Tributes and legacy

I added a new image to the section of the Dean Martin tributes and legacy the name of it is: Dean Martin's Hollywood Walk of Fame star for movies photographed in Mid-2011 I hope all of you administrators and users enjoy the image and please tell me if there is anything wrong with the image and I will be willing to go back and fixs whats wrong with the image thank you and bye!Ilovechoclate (talk) 17:14, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Business Savvy.

DM was an astute business man. In addition to owning one of the casinos in Vegas, according to Greg Garrison, his TV show producer and friend, Martin was, at one time, the largest individual owner of National Broadcasting Corp stock in the world. This is important.johncheverly 18:48, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Alleged Mafia connections?

Is it really necessary for there to be a whole section on his possible mafia connections? These "connections" aren't factual; per WP:BLPGOSSIP, and I understand that Dean Martin is deceased, but that policy should still hold some weight here. Even if these connections are fact, the section seems to be in the wrong spot and still comes off as redundant to have a whole section on his connects. I propose the section gets removed and we mention his possible mafia connections in his personal life section in a sentence or two. ShawntheGod (talk) 13:33, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Politics

No mention of him being a Republican? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.144.32.63 (talk) 21:42, July 21, 2014 (UTC–4)

Watch

This section:

In 2016, the Dean Martin Family Trust and the boutique luxury watchmaker Todd & Marlon introduced an exclusive timepiece inspired by the iconic entertainer Dean Martin. The timepiece evokes some of Mr. Martin’s style cues and passions, the treatment on the watch case is inspired by the brushed, shiny metal of a classic microphone. The strap, made of black leather, is reminiscent of the interior of his custom 1962 Ghia L6.4, and the touch of red on the hands pays homage to his signature pocket square. Finally, a transparent case back boasts a special insignia featuring Dean Martin and reveals a rotor engraved with the title that best describes him, “KING OF COOL.”

seems like a commercial or advertisement. It should be deleted. Vyselink (talk) 05:30, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Removed (but why didn't you do it?). EddieHugh (talk) 21:38, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

Lewis on the split -

There are two pretty straightforward YT video interviews with Lewis being candid about the reasons for the split, at least from his perspective, that would be worthwhile to cull info for the article. 104.169.18.0 (talk) 16:14, 15 November 2018 (UTC)