Talk:Murder of George Floyd
(Redirected from Talk:Death of George Floyd)
Latest comment: 38 minutes ago by Valereee in topic Murder vs Killing?
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Frequently asked questions Q1: Does it have to say "white" police officer?
A1: Yes, because almost all reliable sources emphasize the significance of this fact. Q2: I read some information on the web that isn't in this article!
A2: When proposing anything to be added to the article you need to cite a reliable source; secondary sources are generally preferred over primary. Q3: This article is biased (for/against), or (whitewashes/blames), (Floyd/police)!
A3: See our neutral point of view policy. Complaints of bias must be accompanied by specific concerns or suggestions for change. Vague, general statements don't help. Q4: Why is this article calling it a murder instead of a death/killing?
A4: As a person was formally convicted for murder in a court of law, the article uses the term "murder", in line with the community guidance at WP:MURDERS. Q5: Wasn't Floyd killed near a store called Cub Foods, not Cup Foods?
A5: The store is Cup Foods, and is not affiliated with the Cub Foods store chain. Q6: Why does the article use such a graphic photo? Isn't it in poor taste?
A6: The lead image was determined by the community in a formal Request for Comment process. The RfC reached an "overwhelming consensus" that "...the image, despite it being traumatizing, should be kept per WP:NOTCENSORED, as it is an appropriate representation of the topic." Q7: Why was my request or comment removed?
A7: Because of the frequency of meritless and disruptive requests, any further requests to describe Floyd's murder using other terms (e.g. "death", "overdose") or to change the name of the article accordingly will be removed without consideration, unless the request complies with all relevant Wikipedia guidelines and essays, including WP:Requested moves, WP:Common name, WP:Article titles, WP:Naming conventions (violence and deaths), and WP:Reliable sources. Anyone removing such requests should include a link to this FAQ in their edit summary. Q8: Why do we not call the protests riots?
A8: Because most reliable sources call them protests, not riots. Q9: Did he not die of a drug overdose?
A9: No, whilst fentanyl was a contributory factor, his death certificate lists his cause of death as "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression". |
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Frequently asked questions; please read before posting
edit | This section is pinned and will not be automatically archived. |
- Does it have to say "white" police officer?
- Yes, because almost all reliable sources emphasize the significance of this fact.
- This article is biased (for/against), or (whitewashes/blames), (Floyd/police)!
- See our neutral point of view policy. Complaints of bias must be accompanied by specific concerns or suggestions for change. Vague, general statements don't help.
- Why is this article calling it a murder instead of a death/killing?
- As a person was formally convicted for murder in a court of law, the article uses the term "murder", in line with the community guidance at WP:MURDERS.
- Wasn't Floyd killed near a store called Cub Foods, not Cup Foods?
- The store is Cup Foods, and is not affiliated with the Cub Foods store chain.
- Why does the article use such a shocking photo? Isn't it in poor taste?
- The lead image was determined by the community in a formal Request for Comment process. The RfC reached an "overwhelming consensus" that
"...the image, despite it being traumatizing, should be kept per WP:NOTCENSORED, as it is an appropriate representation of the topic."
- Why was my request or comment removed?
- Because of the frequency of meritless and disruptive requests, any further requests to describe Floyd's murder using other terms (e.g. "death", "overdose") or to change the name of the article accordingly will be removed without consideration, unless the request complies with all relevant Wikipedia guidelines and essays, including WP:Requested moves, WP:Common name, WP:Article titles, WP:Naming conventions (violence and deaths), and WP:Reliable sources. Anyone removing such requests should include a link to this FAQ in their edit summary.
This section is permanently on this talk page and does not get archived. It is for mobile-device users for whom the the normal talk page header and FAQ are not shown.
Murder vs Killing?
editThis article talks extensively about the death of Floyd as "murder", yet the associated article about Justine Damond uses the term "killing". Justine's murderer was convicted of 3rd Degree murder, and Floyd's murder was also convicted of 3rd degree (as well as 2nd and manslaughter). Why is Justine's death called a "killing" and not "murder"? Is it because she is white? I'll post this on Justine's page, too. There needs to be unbiased uniformity at Wikipedia. Grimlocale (talk) 15:50, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- As Q4 of the FAQ states, this article calls it a murder because that's what it was, as determined by a court of law. As for Justine Damond:
On September 15, 2021, the Minnesota Supreme Court reversed Noor's third-degree murder conviction on the basis that the state failed to prove that he committed murder with a "depraved mind" which is a "generalized indifference to human life" as required for the offense of third-degree murder. As the conduct in this case did not meet that standard, the Supreme Court directed the trial court to vacate the conviction of third-degree murder and sentence Noor for the lesser offense of second-degree manslaughter.
Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 15:58, 14 November 2024 (UTC)- We don't do "uniformity" just because. We document what independent reliable sources state. You are free to disagree with the conclusion of the jury, but that doesn't change how it is reported here. There is no such thing as "unbiased", as all sources have biases. Sources are presented to readers so they can see and evaluate them for themselves when determining what they think. Wikipedia does claim to have a neutral point of view, which is different. It is a neutral point of view to call this case a murder because that's what a jury determined. If you think the jury got it wrong, go help Derek Chauvin and the others with his appeals (which I think have been exhausted). 331dot (talk) 16:36, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Grimlocale, Damond's killer is convicted of manslaughter. The previous 3rd-degree murder convictions was overturned. Valereee (talk) 16:39, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- And we therefore have "unbiased uniformity". – Muboshgu (talk) 16:52, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- We do have info surrounding this at WP:DEATHS, but it's not exactly unbiased uniformity across all articles. Consensus at a particular article trumps, and of course bias can creep into those discussions. Valereee (talk) 17:26, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- Maybe, which is why we go by the courts verdicts. Slatersteven (talk) 10:57, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- Well, even then it's not always uniform. Killing of Walter Scott was created at Shooting of Walter Scott, even though the victim was dead. That was fairly common pre-Floyd subconscious bias when a cop shoots someone to death, especially if the cop is white and the victim black and doing anything except putting out their hands to be cuffed. It was only moved to Killing of in 2021 after two attempts to move it to Murder of, even though the perpetrator pled guilty to second-degree murder. So it's still at Killing of, where I'm not actually sure it should be. But at least it's not still at Shooting of. Valereee (talk) 12:52, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- Maybe, which is why we go by the courts verdicts. Slatersteven (talk) 10:57, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
- We do have info surrounding this at WP:DEATHS, but it's not exactly unbiased uniformity across all articles. Consensus at a particular article trumps, and of course bias can creep into those discussions. Valereee (talk) 17:26, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
- And we therefore have "unbiased uniformity". – Muboshgu (talk) 16:52, 14 November 2024 (UTC)