Talk:Death of Paul Kessler

"Killing of" or "Death of"

If the lede sentence contains "allegedly being assaulted", then using the word "Killing" in the title is taking a position. Wikipedia shouldn't do that. - Immigrant laborer (talk) 00:14, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. This takes a stance on the situation unsupported by the evidence. Eduffman (talk) 19:15, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

You two don't think Kessler was killed? Don't be deceived. 69.113.233.201 (talk) 06:52, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

No I don't believe yet that Kessler was killed and I'll hold that view until the prosecutor can prove otherwise to a jury. It's very easy to believe an old man running around on concrete in a crowd tripped and hit his head. Similar things happen tens of thousands of times a year across the US, if not even more often. The man was playing on his phone sticking it in the faces of pro-Palestinian protesters and probably didn't pay enough attention to step up onto a curb while walking backwards.

Sad but not a killing until it is proven. Eduffman (talk) 13:24, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Not really sad considering he caused it all himself. Seems to be a common theme with pro israel people who end up getting hurt, doesn't it? 2607:FEA8:A4E5:6A00:595B:EFBF:BFB4:C90D (talk) 14:58, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

You mean he killed himself because he was old and unfit and tried to start a fight? You let yourself be decieved, there's nothing "antisemitic" (lmao) about his death as well. 2607:FEA8:A4E5:6A00:595B:EFBF:BFB4:C90D (talk) 14:55, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

“…non-lethal facial injuries that could have resulted from being hit.”

Source 2 listed in the citations for this article states that injuries to Paul Kessler were "'…consistent with and typical of injuries sustained from a fall,' Dr. Christopher Young, the chief medical examiner for Ventura County, told reporters.

He also suffered internal injuries consistent with a fall, like skull fractures and swelling and bruising of the brain, Young said."

This seems to point to a conflict between information presented in sources 2 and 9 that should be resolved. Eduffman (talk) 19:04, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Mention of a possible hate crime in the introductory paragraph should be removed.

Civil and law enforcement authorities have been questioned extensively and to this date, to the extent of sources available here, have refused to indicate they believe a chargeable offense has been committed. No arrests have been made after the search of a suspects home and vehicle. Authorities have not yet even signaled they have evidence of any physical contact between the two men.

Wikipedia should avoid calling a situation call a hate crime before any authorities have signaled that any level of criminal activity has been committed in the situation. Eduffman (talk) 19:14, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

The DA says "the evidence did not support hate-crime charges"

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/california-man-pleads-not-guilty-manslaughter-death-jewish-protester-2023-11-18/ 2600:4040:5AEA:6800:C87D:96D5:ECF0:B9C0 (talk) 00:11, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Non notable and bias

not enough evidence to make an article and neither of the individuals are notable, and you can smell the bias in the article. This article is a bad reflection of Wikipedia. 73.138.58.221 (talk) 00:08, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

BLP violation

Loksmythe I must warn you against making edits like this[1] which make negative allegations against a living individual in wikipedia's voice that have not yet been proven. Any allegation must be attributed until its proven and RS themselves make it in their voice.VR _talk 22:20, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 December 2023

Missing a comma in the incidents tab which makes things confusing. On mobile rn, so can’t recall exact wording, but it was in the sentence starting with a statement from the defense lawyer. 2607:FB60:1011:2006:F8AF:2970:5145:9E6D (talk) 21:45, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done EggRoll97 ^(talk) 00:18, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Update based on more recent information

In the first paragraph, it appears the statement, “ Kessler's death has been ruled a homicide and authorities have not ruled out the possibility of a hate crime.” is no longer accurate.

According to this article, the sheriff and attorney general have determined that there is not enough evidence to consider this a hate crime: https://www.ojaivalleynews.com/news/crime_and_courts/court-dates-set-for-man-charged-in-pro-israel-demonstrator-s-death/article_09416e9a-8f0f-11ee-bc06-5ba626f3066a.html

Because charges have already been filed, it seems they did rule out the possibility of hate crime since the source posted on the original statement came out. 32.221.155.183 (talk) 14:54, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

why is this listed as a crime?

An accident, maybe. This isn't like a Palestinian child being stabbed to death by an arch zionist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:A4E5:6A00:595B:EFBF:BFB4:C90D (talk) 14:57, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Source 1 says: “ The death of the man, identified by law enforcement as Paul Kessler, has been ruled a homicide, authorities said. The 50-year-old suspect was detained but later released and has not been arrested, Ventura County Sheriff James Fryhoff said in a news conference, and Kessler’s death remains under investigation.

Witnesses say Kessler was “involved in a physical altercation” with at least one counterprotester while pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian rallies were being held in Thousand Oaks, the Ventura County Sheriff’s Office said in a news release Monday.

“There was clearly an interaction between the two, but what that level of interaction is, is still unclear,” Fryhoff said, asking members of the public who witnessed the incident or had footage to contact authorities.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/07/us/thousand-oaks-protest-man-dies/index.html 49.183.70.173 (talk) 01:35, 30 April 2024 (UTC)