Talk:Death of Rayan Aourram

Notability

@WikiCleanerMan: The topic is receiving wide coverage by many significant international media outlets, as mentioned in the article itself. But we'll probably have to wait until a few days or weeks after the incident is over to undoubtedly prove its notability as per the WP:EVENT guidelines. --Ideophagous (talk) 17:05, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

The event is obviously notable, having received widespread international news coverage. I have removed the notability tag and marked the article as reviewed. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 23:41, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Wide media coverage is not always sufficient to prove notability, as the incident could be just a buzz with no lasting effect, receiving no or little attention from officials or institutions, especially on an international level. However in this case, this event did have a lasting effect, since it drew the attention of many governments and country-level officials in many countries to comment on it, and there were even measures taken by authorities in countries like Jordan and Saudi Arabia to improve safety measures as a response to what happened to Rayan (this was mentioned in the Arabic Wikipedia article, and should be added here). --Ideophagous (talk) 10:29, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Question Regarding Last Name

Is his last name Oram or Awram? Almost all of the news sites I’ve seen say his last name is Awram, such as Reuters, however The New York Post said Oram. It’s kind of confusing when two last times are being provided and it would be great if someone could be able to verify which one of the two is true. SlySabre (talk) 04:51, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

New York Times is also giving Oram. I'm not sure there's an objectively correct answer between the two, but wouldn't be opposed to a move if it's clear that a preponderance of sources use Awram. I'd already redirected Rayan Awram and Death of Rayan Awram here, and have added a note to the lede about the two transliterations. On that note, what's his name in Arabic? Ideally we'd have that in an {{lang-ar}} template. Judging from ary:حاديتة ديال ريان and my very limited knowledge of Arabic grammar, I'm guessing حاديتة ديال, but I could be misunderstanding how those words are interacting. Google Translate is no help in this case. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she/they) 05:02, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

@SlySabre: In the Arabic script it's written أورام which can be read both Awram and Oram. I'm pretty sure the name is Berber though, so we'll need a native speaker of Berber to tell us the correct reading. @Tamzin: The title you're mentioning is from the Moroccan Darija (aka Moroccan Arabic) Wikipedia. I don't think the Standard Arabic Wikipedia has an article on the topic yet. Google Translate also does not have Moroccan Darija, so it won't help much with the translation, except for some words in common with MSA. As for the title, it just says "Rayan Incident" just like the old title in enwiki. I'll move it to a matching title now. --Ideophagous (talk) 05:20, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for letting us know, that definitely helps clear some things up. SlySabre (talk) 05:22, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Morocco's state-owned news agency prefers using the transliteration Aourram, see: https://www.mapnews.ma/fr/actualites/r%C3%A9gional/province-de-chefchaouen-inhumation-de-lenfant-rayan, so does the Moroccan Royal Palace https://www.leconomiste.com/flash-infos/deces-du-petit-rayan-communique-du-cabinet-royal, the text in Amazigh can be read as Awram, or as Aouram. MakhzenHuman (talk) 22:01, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

As someone who grew up in Morocco, I would say "Aourram" sounds more correct than the other varieties, and as you specified, it's used by official Moroccan sources. If there are no objections, I believe we should move the title, and correct the name in the text. --Ideophagous (talk) 16:44, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

CNN and the WSJ have also adopted that spelling now. WWGB (talk) 01:10, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the consideration :-) MakhzenHuman (talk) 01:26, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

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