Talk:Declaration (Red album)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Redirect

@Walter Görlitz: I'd prefer this article be live. We have a release date, cover art, track list, single confirmations, etc. Plenty of detail to warrant display. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:21, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

I'd prefer there to be more than press-release coverage of the singles and the upcoming release. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:15, 12 February 2020 (UTC)

@Jzahck: Feel free to discuss here. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 20:00, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

I think making this article a redirect is an unnecessary strictness, all of their studio albums are notable and have article, only a few days left to this album be released.--Editor-1 (talk) 03:52, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Editor-1, Have you found any reviews about the album in its entirety? Perhaps best wait until then before expanding further. I'd be fine with a page being created, but another editor prefers to wait. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 03:54, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

No I haven't, no problem, we wait one week or even one month!--Editor-1 (talk) 04:12, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Wait? Of course. The article does not meet WP:NALBUM let alone WP:GNG. So if you have a disagreement with either of those, feel free to discuss them at that article.

Most albums will have reviews weeks before they're released so "about to be released" is not a valid reason to ignore Wikipedia notability criteria. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:01, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

I agree with @Another Believer:. Each and every studio album by the band has their own album page, and we have literally every detail and piece of information that would warrant an article outside of critical reception, which will happen in 2 days. Additionally, it's their most notable album in recent years due to their independence from their album and doing a lot more promotion for it than before. Other albums that are not out yet for smaller bands have articles. Why revert a full page of information and edits just to a redirect as you "wait" for a week? --- Jzahck_(Talk) 7:56, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

It's not about other albums, it's about this one. If it's actually notable, then the press will show-up, if it's not, then it won't. Notability is WP:NOTINHERITED. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:29, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Walter Görlitz, At some point you should accept there are multiple editors waiting to jump on expanding this article and you're hindering this process. I understand your perspective but also think you might pick your battle and let this stub snowball. --Another Believer _(Talk) 20:51, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

I didn't realize that a large number of inexperienced editors get to determine if an article exists or not. I'm not hindering anything other than the creation of an article that currently fails notability. I understand your perspective but also think you might pick your battle and let this go until there are sources to show it's actually notable. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:56, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Whatever, the album comes out in 2 days so this discussion will be moot by the weekend. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 21:01, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Shocked that someone is being this obstinate about educating people about a notable rock band that's been around for over a decade now and stifling information the "Free Encyclopedia" of the Internet. All of their albums have peaked in the Billboard 200 and many of them have peaked at No. 1 in Christian albums. This album is no different and there are already numerous press releases and interviews about the recording and making of it, matching with guidelines in WP:GNG. Instead of acknowledging this, you have chosen to respond by calling us "inexperienced editors," which is anything but an action a professional and experienced editor would do. The singles for this album have been in heavy rotation on national rock and Christian radio, matching with #6 of WP:NALBUM. This argument is so petty, the article will exist in 2 days, so being this restrictive over giving relevant and notable information to the public is pointless. --- Jzahck 23:22, 1 April 2020 UTC

Be shocked because notability is not inherited. If this album doesn't chart on the Billboard 200, it doesn't matter what the others before it have done

If a single was in rotation nationally by a major radio or music television network, 1, prove it, and 2, then that single is notable, but not the album. That's how notability works.

I'm actually shocked that sources don't have more coverage already. One source that I would expect to have an advance copy and have a review already is Jesus Freak Hideout, yet as of 23:15 PDT on April 1 they don't but Roar (Live From Passion 2020) does, as do others that release later. I'm concerned that an album I helped fund isn't getting an press. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:17, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

And for the record, I got my backers download link yesterday and have just started to listen to it. I suspect that reviewers were sent the link earlier, and if not, at the same time. Reviews should start pouring in. Remember: no blogs, only professional reviews. Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:25, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

"The Evening Hate" peaked at #7 on Billboard's Christian Digital Song Sales, "From The Ashes" peaked at #15, and "Sever" peaked at #21. All of these are the lead singles from the album and have higher peak positions than the band's arguably biggest songs "Breathe Into Me" as seen on the official Billboard website. Feel free to make individual pages about all of these notable singles on your own, though, instead of making the common sense decision that the LP containing all of these songs would be notable. --- Jzahck 20:40, 2 April 2020 UTC

The album now has a (very positive) review on Jesus Freak Hideout. Review here. --- Jzahck 04:08, 3 April 2020 UTC

Excellent. WP:GNG says sources, so at least one more would be good. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:33, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Compare with Guardians (August Burns Red album) which also released April 3. Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:19, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Would an Interview on Loudwire with Anthony Armstrong be considered "sources"? There were already interviews with the band about their decisions to release an album (they were not originally going to) and their process going independent. --- Jzahck 23:34, 3 April 2020 UTC

Any opposition to me archiving this discussion? Are we all fine with the current article over a redirect? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 01:33, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

I don't see a need to archive it. What's the rationale? Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:00, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Walter Görlitz, Oh, just figured didn't need to be read by folks longterm if we're settled redirecting is no longer best. No worries. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 02:02, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

WP:ARCHIVE lays out the reasons to archive, and I suppose yours is fair. I'll do it after this save. Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:05, 6 April 2020 (UTC)