Talk:Defense

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I sense a large amount of non-NPOV here... I think this article needs to be drastically reworked. I'll start by moving a chunk of the text that seems unnecessary to the /talk page, but I think people more experienced than I should try their hand at this article... --KA

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moved block: Defense in the modern world goes beyond 'Oogh',our caveman, and his club beating down tigers. Today defense is a multibillion dollar exploration into the latest, greatest technologies. Defense today, for many Americans, means a fighter jet buzzing overhead, or raining down bombs on 'evilones' oversees. Defense means a gun on the nightstand, a can of mace in the purse, a Club--the popular lock for steering wheels--on their car, a five-sided building with men in pressed pants, decorated with metals, standing over maps, and saving our country from those who wish us harm. Defense has become a 200-plus billion dollar budget allocation to the Armed Forces alone in the United States, not to mention Homeland Security; the FBI, the CIA, the NSC, and the thousands of police departments from New York City, New York, to Proctorville, Ohio.

Defense, though in many senses, has reamined the same; we all need to protect ourselves and those that we value--ou r family, our friends,our neighbors,the citizens of our country-- from the adversity of our enviroment, and the dangerous that surround us. Though defense may have started with Ugh fighting :off a tiger --though it likely did not--, the business of defense can no longer be seen as a solo operation: Any real defense is a common defense

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I'd like to make this more useful as a disambiguation page. So how about adding links to pages at Defense (sport), Defense (legal), Defense (politics) and Defense (military)? Is this a good idea? Are these the best titles? -- sannse 07:43 May 3, 2003 (UTC)

I think this makes sense, as far as defense (legal) is concerned such a page can really be a quite detailed article in its own right, and seeing how many law topic pages link here, it makes sense that it has its own link so that those pages can be corrected to link directly there. Alex756 10:32 16 May 2003 (UTC)

OK, I'll have a go at separating the pages. They will be rather stubish for now but hopefully will develop. -- sannse 19:01 16 May 2003 (UTC)

That's much better. Good move, sannse. Tannin

Humm, I've just moved defense (law) to defense (legal) but now I'm not sure. Which is the better title? -- sannse 19:30 16 May 2003 (UTC)

Flip a coin. "Legal", I guess. Tannin

Tails it is then -- sannse

True or false??

True or false: defense is the American spelling and defence is the Canadian spelling. 66.32.248.34 19:42, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Yes, defence is also the UK spelling, etc. --taestell 04:28, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)

NPOV: Removed USDoD as euphemism example

Under defense as a politial euphemism for war, somebody had placed "(See United States Department of Defense)" or somesuch. It may have been unintentional, but this would doubtless convey the implication (to some readers) that initiating war is the true purpose of the USDoD.

This is a view worthy of discussion, perhaps, but explicitly and not by implication. --NathanHawking 01:48, 2004 Oct 6 (UTC)

Spelling

Should the redirection not be the other way around? i.e to from defense to defence?

Whilst I understand that defense is a valid ALTERNATE spelling, alternate it is nonetheless. Whilst there may be British/American/Australian English, is English English not the original? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.221.212.66 (talk • contribs • WHOIS)

I agree that the spelling should be changed from Defense to Defence. Defence more commonly used and defense is only used inside the USA, therefore the article is not reflecting a worldwide view. TKLM 15:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Moved, defence is not a US concept, it has existed well before US english and formation of the USA. Bungalowbill

I believe that to be false. Can you give a reference? The US constitution uses the Defence spelling. While some countries other then the US recognise both especially Canada, in British English 'defence 'is the only recognised form of spelling. ChessCreator (talk) 13:45, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

But with an s is more internationally recognized: Spanish:Defensa, Dutch:Defensie, Portuguese: Defesa. Not to mention American English and Commonwealth derivatives like defensive.Cameron Nedland 13:34, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Maybe so, but of course then you're looking at Spanish, Dutch, and Portuguese, not English. Simply put, US English (AFAIK) is the only type that spells the root word with an 'S'. -- Stephen 20:56, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

So it was agreed to move this article from the US-only spelling (s) to (as described in the article) the worldwide spelling (c). This was then reverted a month later, with no discussion on this talk page and two reasons given - that the links in the page are spelt with an s (which, by the same reasoning as above, should then all be changed to a c), and to keep the article consistent with offense. If the spelling of offence is used globally except in the US, surely by the same reasoning it too should be changed. If not, it is after all a different (albeit connected) word anyway - the spelling used need not mirror the spelling used here. To summarise, I suggest that this page be moved back to Defence again, with the articles pointed to also moved to Defence_(foo), and (if applicable) the same thing done to Offence. If there are any reasons I've missed as to why this should stay at Defense, please list them below.

Pity you didn't date your comment , but yes in September 2006 is was reverted from the worldwide spelling (c) to the US spelling (s) with no discussion. It has been at least many months since your comment and no one has given any reason to keep defense, therefore it seems to be time to change it to the worldwide spelling. ChessCreator (talk) 13:57, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree. This is the English wikipedia, not the American wikipedia. --Oddeivind (talk) 18:02, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

If you'd like to bring this up so long after the conversation ended, then you'd probably be best creating a new topic at the bottom of the page. However, I should point out that there would be no point in doing so here.

The official Manual of Style policy is that, for words with different regional spellings (even when one spelling is more common overall), unless the topic itself is particularly unique to a specific locale, then the spelling convention used in the first non-stub version must be the one to stay with.

That is, it doesn't matter if everyone but Americans spells it defence. If defense was the spelling used in the original non-stub version of the page (and, let's face it, there's really no such thing as a 'stub' when you're talking about disambiguation), then there it shall stay until the MoS is changed.

That doesn't mean that this page can never move. It just means that it can't move until you first change the policy. And, of course, that needs to be done (ideally) at the village pump or (less ideally) at the discussion page for the MoS. 139.57.100.63 (talk) 23:14, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Spelling

Hate to reopen this but the US is the only English speaking country that spells it defense. Population that spells it as "defense": US (300 million). Population that spells it as "defence": Australia (21 million), Canada (31 million), UK (60 million), New Zealand (5 million) Ireland (4 million) and INDIA (1000 Million). Sorry - but defence it is! 58.178.57.17 (talk) 03:32, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

India does not count as only a couple of hundred thousand people there speak English as their native language. Also, it doesn't matter anyway because Wikipedia is not a majority rule website.

Not Representative

I should point out that as defence is the worldwide spelling of the word then that should be used, since the entire world uses said spelling. Defense refers solely to the US, and is therefore unrepresentative of the rest of the world. Under Wikipedia [sic] guidelines the spelling should be reverted back to defence.--J.StuartClarke (talk) 17:28, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't think there is any wiki guideline to say that. Can you post a link. SunCreator (talk) 15:01, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

{{Globalize/USA}}

Perhaps this? --J.StuartClarke (talk) 21:48, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps, but would require some more information to make a case.

These are the guidelines that I'm aware of are WP:ENGVAR and Wikipedia:ENGLISH#Include_alternatives. The guidelines basically say that both spelling is acceptable, but "retain the existing variety" and in "the early stages of writing an article, the variety chosen by the first major contributor to the article should be used."

Another article (not wikipedia guideline's) showing differences are American and English spelling differences.

With regards to the word defense I'd like to know if it is exclusively used in America or is both defense and defence in use? I guess it is, but am not sure. SunCreator (talk) 22:30, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

The U.S. is the only part of the world that primarily uses "defense". I live in Canada and can say without a doubt that I have never seen anyone spell "defence" as "defense" despite the fact that people outside of Canada believe that they are both accepted here. 174.95.17.194 (talk) 04:18, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Relative numbers of native English speakers in the major English-speaking countries of the world.

I was about to agree, until I realised that a majority of the world's native English speakers use the US spelling (see pie chart on right). --hydrox (talk) 19:52, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Cimetidine

Why is Cimetidine listed on this page? J04n(talk page) 23:30, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

• Because Defense is one among a host of brand names for Cimetidine. 220.137.252.163 (talk) 01:32, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Spelling - American spelling: is it really American?

I'm American, and I was always taught to spell defence, defence. I recognized that the spelling was used in "department of defense", but thought that was some kind of archaic something or other. So is the American spelling truly American? Furthermore, I wonder how this "defense" spelling came about. From what I've read about spelling reform (the same spelling reform that made "colour" into "color", it seems like it would be more logical to spell it defence. Anyone know? 188.74.96.196 (talk) 16:12, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

You're asking in the wrong place. This page is for discussing changes to the Defense article. You could try asking at the reference desk (or should that be the referense desk?)  —SMALLJIM  17:54, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

G angles

Describe crosshairs on g angles Eglassis 2604:2D80:B689:6600:7D19:E036:F285:946A (talk) 07:06, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Kristie Reed

Kristie Reed 2604:2D80:B689:6600:7D19:E036:F285:946A (talk) 07:06, 30 January 2023 (UTC)