Talk:Dennis Prager

Alma mater

GuardianH and Hipal, regarding the recent edits and reverts,[1][2][3] is there a Wikipedia policy or guideline about whether or how a college can be listed as an alma mater in a box when the subject did not receive a degree? Llll5032 (talk) 16:57, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

I've always taken it to mean that you have a degree from that school. However our articles on Alma_mater and alumni both support that it includes people who didn't get a degree. I'm not sure where I stand on inclusion. My primary concern would be people like me who would assume inclusion=graduation. I also don't like the implication of "failed out" that some might read into the lack of a diploma. I know that is not always the case (Bill Gates). Springee (talk) 17:39, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Infoboxes are meant to highlight aspects of notability. It's problematic to provide anything beyond basic information that's not tied to notability. --Hipal (talk) 22:06, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

His educational background is tied with his notability, hence why it's included. He attended classes at both institutions, so it only makes sense to place though institutions in the alma mater parameter, given that Leeds and Columbia were Prager's last-attended higher education institution. They should be restored for now as a WP:PRESERVE. GuardianH (talk) 23:51, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Would the WP:PRESERVE option be to return to the status quo box wording as of August 4 and before? Llll5032 (talk) 00:11, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

That could work. I would opt to remove the (no degree) distinctions to avoid unnecessary clutter and do it by simple omission. GuardianH (talk) 01:45, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

His educational background is tied with his notability Howso? --Hipal (talk) 03:13, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Same reason why we put educational backgrounds and degrees attained for most persons: academic training is formative. Being a talk show host and conservative icon, Prager is no different. Since the alma_mater parameter for the linked name of the last-attended institution of higher education is satisfied in this case, it's due for inclusion. If you disagree, we might consider putting it in the education parameter instead if very little information is available or relevant, but I think the alma_mater parameter works just fine. GuardianH (talk) 03:49, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

I prefer the current infobox status (showing only the college where he earned degree), though I would not revert if the other schools are reinstated. If the other schools are included in the box, "no degree" (or equivalent) should be shown to avoid misleading readers about his status at those schools. Including them, however, with the clarifier, seems unduly kludgy and even a little gratuitous. Alternatively, showing "BA" for Brooklyn and nothing for the other two schools could still leave an improper perception that he received degrees from them also, even if not specified. The article text adequately covers the situation regarding the non-degree schools. DonFB (talk) 05:46, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Either the status quo box wording as of August 4 that includes the schools but notes the lack of degrees, or the current box wording that omits the non-degree schools, appears to be closest to consensus. Is there a preference? Llll5032 (talk) 20:28, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Same reason why we put educational backgrounds and degrees attained for most persons That's not notability at all. --Hipal (talk) 16:17, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Until we find the required consensus to do otherwise, I think in order to follow BLP the infobox should only contain Brooklyn College. --Hipal (talk) 23:31, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

If there are no policy-based objections, I'll be removing the other two entries. --Hipal (talk) 19:10, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Aipac and Zionism!! 2603:8001:A53C:D88:F8BC:D64F:318E:A499 (talk) 19:06, 26 February 2024 (UTC)