Talk:Deolinda Rodrigues

Actual Surname

Coming from a Portuguese speaking background, I find it unlikely that her name real name was Rodriguez instead of Rodrigues. Every single reference in Angola uses Rodrigues (e.g. Deolinda Rodrigues avenue). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.166.74.246 (talk) 18:45, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

The name Rodríguez appears in the Library of Congress and other publications. Rodrigues is given as an alternative. What else can we do. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:14, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

I checked VIAF as well. Both given. As a perpetual misspelling myself, it is more important that one is able to tie the documentation to her life than to assume that we ever have the "100% correct" translation. All we *can* do is list alternative spellings. Even if the page was transferred to a surname spelling of Rodrigues there would need to be a redirect for Rodriguez. SusunW (talk) 19:22, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

It is just plain wrong. It is just like naming the article about John Kennedy using the alternative form of "Jon Kenady" just because the Library of Congress of Vanuatu has it that way. The correct spelling of her surname was Rodrigues. If you need propoer sources, check the following:

· Official website of MPLA (and OMA): http://www.mpla.ao/oma.25/deolinda-rodrigues.29.html.

· A telegram from Amilcar Cabral demanding her release from prison in Zaire: http://www.casacomum.org/cc/visualizador?pasta=07073.131.115

37.28.198.78 (talk) 12:26, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Just institute a request to move for the name change. I don't think anyone will oppose the suggestion as long as there is a redirect to Rodriguez. SusunW (talk) 15:12, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Agree, but please do leave a redirect. --Rosiestep (talk) 06:25, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Killed because of "support of the Angolan Independence movement" ???

"Due to her support of the growing Angolan Independence movement, she was captured, tortured, and executed." Can that be supported by any sources? According to the text of teh article she was killed by a competing guerilla movement which also fought for Angolan Independence (FNLA). So it looks like a simple, sad case of factional infighting. Kipala (talk) 01:12, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Kipala, sounds good. Go for it! --Rosiestep (talk) 06:22, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

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Requested move 16 March 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved as an uncontroversial uncontested request. (closed by non-admin page mover) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 23:12, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

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Deolinda Rodrigues Francisco de Almeida → Deolinda Rodrigues – per WP:UCN (e.g. "Bill Clinton [not: William Jefferson Clinton]") as seen in the article's sources and the subject's own publications and correspondence (all linkable from the article). —  AjaxSmack  14:32, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Planned Improvements (Women in Green Good Article Edit-a-thon)

Hi all! I will be working on improving this article as part of the Women in Green Good Article Edit-a-thon in the upcoming days and weeks. Based on a preliminary look at this article, here are some major things I would like to accomplish:

• Verify all of the sources used. Ideally, I would like to either (a) find evidence for the claim elsewhere in the source or (b) find evidence for the claim in another source. However, if I can do neither, I will (c) delete the unsourced claims.
• Possibly change out some sources for more reliable ones, if I can find them. If not, most of the info seems fine contextually, so I’ll leave it be.
• Expand on her activity during her life (and anything else that appears relevant based on research).
• Copyedit, as necessary.

I'll be working in my sandbox primarily, and transferring edits as appropriate. If you have any questions, suggestions, or objections, please let me know! I am a new editor, so I might make mistakes. Thanks!

Spookyaki (talk) 22:28, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

One important edit that I would like some feedback on. The original article said that Rodrigues was "tortured and dismembered alive." This is supported by an online article by Oswaldo Faustino, "A história da militante angolana Deolinda Rodrigues." If true, this would be a pretty substantial claim. However, no other source out of dozens I've read (including many that I would consider more reliable than Faustino) corroborates the claim, though none contradict it either. Most implicitly indicate that, in the same way that we do not know precisely when Rodrigues died, we do not know precisely how she died either (though none say it as explicitly as that). I moved the claim about torture to a footnote, saying that "Faustino says that she was tortured and dismembered alive," but I'm curious whether people agree or disagree with this move. Spookyaki (talk) 23:56, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your work so far, Spookyaki. I've put some comments below. Let me know if you have any questions. From what I've seen, the article is about ready to be nominated; almost invariably a GA reviewer will identify improvements that can be made and this isn't a substitute for a full review. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:46, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

• As you mention above, if you can't find reliable sources for claims, they should be deleted. (per WP:V)
• I know nothing about the subject, but the book sources look to be high quality.
• Given the balance of sources, moving the claims by Faustino to the footnot seems reasonable to me. It would be good to add sources at the end of footnotes b and c (like the one at a)

• Cartas de Langidila e outros documentos citation is incomplete (e.g. lacking publisher)
• I suggest adding publisher for The World Factbook
• I think deardeolinda.com is probably a suitable source, but you might get questioned about it.
• Not a requirement for GA, but I'd suggest being consisten in mentioning the language of sources if not English, and adding in the trans-title parameter.
• Not a requirement for GA, but Rodríguez, Limbania Jiménez (2010) is listed in the Bibliography despite not being cited.
• Not a requirement for GA, but the Bibliography should be sorted either alphabetically, or by date. (The Martins book is not in its alphabetical position)
• I haven't done any spot checks to sources as part of this brief review.

Death and legacy

• Can the publiction year for Diário de um Exilio sem Regresso be added?
• I suggest varying the starts of the paras that currently begin "In 2010"/"In 2011"

Lead

• I haven't checked the source: is "Mother of the Revolution" really an honorary title" or just what she was known as? Might be worth including in the article body as well as in the lead.
• You could add a wikilink to MPLA
• Lead seems a bit lacking in coverage of the Work with the MPLA and Death and legacy sections.

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Deolinda Rodrigues/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Spookyaki (talk · contribs) 13:25, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Yue (talk · contribs) 19:16, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check.

   a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

   Citations 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 9, 10, 20, 21, 26, and 28 were spot-checked for verification. Two issues arose:

   • Citation 1 gives the nom de guerre Languidila, but the article body cites other sources that give Langidila. Did citation 1 make a typo or are both names used, because if it's the former than the source isn't worth keeping, but if it's the latter than both names should be shown (or the less common one should have an efn note).
     • You know, I'm honestly not sure. I've seen both. Obviously her published material uses "Langidila." I believe it derives from Kimbundu. "Languidila" might be a Portuguized(?) version of it. Per Pimpão António: "...Langidila [that is the spelling used], the nom de guerre assumed later by Deolinda... is a name in the Kimbundu language, which means 'vigilant' or 'be vigilant.'" For now, I'll change out the Mosaiko article for Pimpão António's article. Spookyaki (talk) 19:45, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
     • I think that's fine. Yue🌙 22:19, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
   • Rodrígues 2003 doesn't actually go anywhere. Did you mean Rodrígues 2004 or does the source in the bibliography have the wrong year?
     • Oops, 2003 was actually the correct date. Changed that out in the full citation.Spookyaki (talk) 19:45, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   Content is generally well-done, but I had two major questions after reading the prose twice. Her correspondence with Martin Luther King Jr. is mentioned in the lead, but it is merely a passing mention in the article body. What was the content of these letters, and were they written in Rodrigues' native Portuguese or in English? She also studied in the US for about two years; did she speak any English? These details should be added to the article body.

   Expanded a bit on the letters and on Rodrigues's linguistic abilities. Spookyaki (talk) 19:46, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

   That looks good. Candido 2018 also mentions that Rodrigues was the only women member of the MPLA's central committee in the 1960s. Yue🌙 22:16, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

   Added a brief sentence in the first paragraph of "Work with the MPLA" to reflect this. Spookyaki (talk) 23:37, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   Much is discussed about the MPLA's (and therefore, the Angolan government's) views on her, but what about her opponents'? What is her legacy amongst opposition groups and figures (which I assume to be less favourable)?

   I couldn't find any information about her reception with specific opposition groups such as UNITA, (my assumption is that they just don't view her as a very important figure) but I did add a paragraph about some of the more general criticisms of Rodrigues and her reception in Angolan society. Spookyaki (talk) 19:46, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

   You may also want to add a bit more about Rodrigues' experiences with and opinions of the MPLA's patriarchal organisation and internal misogyny, which is discussed in Martins 2024, p. 240. Yue🌙 22:16, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

   Reorganized some stuff in the "Work with the MPLA" section to better reflect this. The paragraph starting "Rodrigues's writings from the time..." I opted to use Paraedes instead of Martins because Martins cites Paredes in that section. Spookyaki (talk) 23:39, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall: Final edits look good. Passing. Yue🌙 01:40, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

   Pass/Fail:

Discussion

I will be completing a review of this article in the next few days. After a quick read, it appears to be reasonably well-written and sourced throughout. I will spot-check the sources shortly.

Some immediate but minor concerns content-wise though is her correspondence with Martin Luther King Jr. is mentioned in the lead, but it is merely a passing mention in the article body. What was the content of these letters, and were they written in Rodrigues' native Portuguese or in English? She also studied in the US for about two years; did she speak any English?

There is also a lot of discussion regarding the MPLA's (and consequently the Angolan government's) views of her, but nothing about her opponents'. What is her legacy with opposition organisations that have long been rivals to the MPLA, such as UNITA? Are there such views available in the collection of sources gathered? Those are a few questions to start with that I hope the nominator will ponder and answer. Yue🌙 19:16, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.