Talk:Departures (2008 film)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Dr. Blofeld (talk · contribs) 19:02, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Will review later in the week.♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:02, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Lead

• Why is there the Japanese given for mortician (納棺師 nōkanshi?)?
  • Because the term "mortician" is only a rough translation of the nōkanshi and has some very different connotations and denotations (including the encoffining ceremony); the original is provided for precision. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:52, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

You should probably write it as nōkanshi (mortician) then or add a footnote explaining what you just said.

I see you've added a note to production so it should be OK, but I'd be inclined to put the note in the lead on first instance unless there is some sort of MOS guidelines which advises against it.

• The template prefers English first; Curly Turkey, does MOS Japan require English then Japanese? I can certainly duplicate the footnote. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:02, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Or I can't. I'm getting ref errors. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:19, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

The template's fiddly—I've never liked it, despite my addiction to templates. Partly it's because Japanese writing (and transliteration) itself is so fiddly. The documentation does give examples of a lot of different ways to use it—you don't have to put the English first. Still, I think it wouldn't be a crime to drop it.

I think I might prefer to call them nōkanshi right off the bat and explain the profession as something like "ritual mortician" (?) or something. You know, like: "stumbles across work as a nōkanshi, a traditional Japnese ritual mortician". I might kick the kanji out of the lead, too—I can read it, and I still find it distracting at that scope (I know a lot of people strongly disagree with me on that, though). Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 09:30, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

• That sounds like it would work. Keep the degree of precision we need without confusing readers. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:31, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

That should be fine.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:01, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

• nōkan - you might want to put in a footnote what this is.
  • Since we only use it once in the lead I've gone with the standard translation (encoffining). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:03, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

OK.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:13, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Production

• "Despite the importance of death rituals, the subject is considered unclean as all which is related to death is considered " -rep of considered. By whom anyway?
  • in traditional Japanese culture / by the Japanese (I had hoped this was implied from the first paragraph). This is meant to be a very general overview and point the readers at the articles on related topics (Japanese funerals goes into some detail). Duplication removed. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:05, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Conception

• "While in India, he visited Varanasi. There, he witnessed a ceremony in which the dead was cremated and the ashes were floated down the Ganges.[10] Motoki said that, while in India, he was deeply affected by this ceremony of death against a backdrop of bustling crowds going about their lives." This could be reworded a bit, "while in India" is a bit redundant too. How about "While in India, he visited Varanasi, where he witnessed a ceremony in which the dead was cremated and the ashes were floated down the Ganges. Motoki was deeply affected by this ceremony of death against a backdrop of bustling crowds going about their lives."
  • Reworked. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:09, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
• "Among the books he read Motoki came across" - he read /came across look awkward together here. Reword. "Among the books he came across" or something
  • Reworked. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:09, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
• "Production of Departures took ten years, and the work which was ultimately only loosely adapted from Coffinman." Sentence seems to be incomplete, "which" is the word I think which seems strange.
  • Brain fart. Nuked. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:23, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
• Link Yamagata and Toyama?

• Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:23, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

• "Aoki expressed concern that the film was ultimately unable to address "the ultimate fate of the dead", " -rep of ultimate, I think you can remove ultimately and still get the same information from the quote.

• Agree and done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:23, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

• "as the its humanistic approach"

• Our brains must have been eating beans. Dealt with. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:23, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

• "In Coffinman, the protagonist was the owner of a pub-café that had gone out of business; during a domestic squabble his wife threw a newspaper at him, inside which he found the ad for the nōkanshi position.[2" -Don't we use present tense when referring to literature/films?

• As this is an autobiographical memoir, I don't think that's best. Also, here we're referring to the contents of the work without presenting it as a narrative. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:23, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

• What is this "light" you keep referring to? Perhaps a note to explain?

• Curly Turkey would have to address that, as he has the sources. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:23, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
  • I'll have to look into this. It wasn't clear to me, but it seemed like the light was being treated almost as a literal phenomenon. I'll see if I can find a source that discusses the book more directly—it sounds like it was a major motif that was ditched entirely in the movie. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 09:40, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Filming

• Some of the earlier content in this section isn't really filming, you might consider splitting it. Motoki down to realistic effect looks more like Casting and preparation or something.
  • Recast. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:33, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
• No article for Himitsu?

• Just the novel. The film doesn't have an article yet in either English or Japanese. Hence no link. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:25, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

• "Negotiations were slow, as many local property owners were reluctant to "- reluctant to what?

• Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:25, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

• "The Kobayashis' café, called Concerto in the film" -italicize restaurant names?
  • I don't think we're supposed to, as it's not included in WP:ITALICS. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:25, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Ah, don't worry about it.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:29, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Style

• "which are "suggest"
  • Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:33, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
• "Through this use of humour, Betsy Sharkey of the Los Angeles Times opines, the film avoids becoming too dark and instead acts as a "warmhearted blend" of whimsy and irony.[55]" -I'd reword as Betsy Sharkey of the Los Angeles Times opines that through this use of humour, the film avoids becoming too dark and instead acts as a "warmhearted blend" of whimsy and irony.[55]" to improve flow.
  • Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:37, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Release

• "with the festival's grand prize." -does this have an article or official name?
  • Grand Prix. I deliberately left out a bit of detail as we go further into this in the Awards section. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:44, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
• Isn't taboo already linked somewhere?

• No, but it's common enough that it can be removed. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:44, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

• " at the fifth week" =during the fifth week?
  • Agree, done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:44, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
• "Executive producer Yasuhiro Mase credited this success to the effects of the Great Recession on Japan: viewers were "looking for work after being restructured out of a job", as with Daigo.[6" -I don't think you need the quote here and it would read better if you paraphrase it.
  • "seeking employment after having been downsized" now. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:45, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Excellent.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:47, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Adaptations

• "and came to feel that a too-literal adaptation would not be proper. " -I think "appropriate" would read more smoothly here.
  • Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:49, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
• " It contained nineteen tracks from the film and featured " -should be present tense I think.
  • Rest of that paragraph is past tense. I've reworked to use verb -ing. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:49, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
• "saw a published edition the first draft"
  • Reworked. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:51, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
• "It starred kabuki actor Nakamura Kankurō as Daigo and Rena Tanaka as Mika[79] when it debuted at Akasaka ACT Theater (ja) on 29 May 2010.[80] " -try "It debuted at the Akasaka ACT Theater on 29 May 2010, and featured kabuki actor Nakamura Kankurō as Daigo and Rena Tanaka as Mika." I think that flows a little better.
  • I think Curly was trying to ensure that we weren't incorrect in case there was a casting change somewhere down the run. If that's correct, perhaps "It debuted at the Akasaka ACT Theater on 29 May 2010, with a performance starring kabuki actor Nakamura Kankurō as Daigo and Rena Tanaka as Mika."
    • Or "It debuted at the Akasaka ACT Theater on 29 May 2010 featuring kabuki actor Nakamura Kankurō as Daigo and Rena Tanaka as Mika."? Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 10:13, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Home release

• "It featured " -again I think "it features" when referring to an existing product.
  • Reworked to avoid the issue, as again most of the paragraph is in the past tense. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:55, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Reception

This is very long, quite a mouthful to read fully. I think you could condense it a bit and not lose anything too valuable. Can you try to shorten it a bit?

• Reviews, I'd assume? I did trim some before nominating, but I avoided losing any who I quoted elsewhere and from major publications. I'm loathe to lose any of the Cultural impact section, which is quite tight already. Awards could lose a paragraph, maybe. Maybe. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:57, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Reviews I mean yeah, it's a wee bit too detailed I think. If any reviewer says the same or similar thing in some cases you might say xxx and xxx believed that film was xxx and paraphrase a bit. Something to consider long term anyway, it's not stopping it from being promoted.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:04, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Cultural impact

Is Mukaebito meant to be italicized?

• • Per WP:WORDSASWORDS, yes. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:05, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

LOL, is there no limit to how many guidelines we have on here?...♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:07, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

• Delink Toyama, link only in first instance as suggested above.♦ Dr. Blofeld 09:59, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Already done. The link to at Takaoka, Toyama is to the village (in Toyama prefecture). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:05, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   B. MoS compliance:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Looks fine for GA, excellent work! Some of those Japanese sources really look a nightmare to research and archive so well done on that!♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:11, 12 July 2014 (UTC)