Talk:Der Stahlhelm, Bund der Frontsoldaten

Untitled Initial Thread

looks like this page works..

Ok - question: AFAIK Stahlhelm was primarily an (infulential conservative) veteran's organization. I keep seeing it called it a paramilitary org - did they actually have military units ?

They had. In fact, they could be called the paramilitary wing of the German National People's Party (DNVP), although they weren't offically a part of the DNVP. However, Stahlhelm was not a Freikorps. The Freikorps were militia associations of ex-soldiers that were led against rebellious leftists and workers, while Stahlhelm was a paramilitary and - despite of its claim of being nonpartial - far-right political organisation. The Freikorps were actually used by the Weimar government to fight down anti-Weimar leftist rebellions. Although their members were by and large anti-democratic, they weren't really political organisations. Third Reich resistance fighters like Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Martin Niemöller and Paul Schneider were Freikorps members or received military training by them. Stahlhelm, on the other hand, played an active role in the overthrow of the Weimar system. Of course, many Freikorps fighters later became Stahlhelm members, as the right-wing anti-Weimar political movement largely consisted of ex-soldiers who found themselves unable to reintegrate into civilian life after WW I was lost. See the article about Weimar paramilitary groups. 87.169.33.176 02:13, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Syncing with wp.de

Started the translation from the current state of the German article. Looks like this one was originally translated from it but not maintained as the other was filled out. 72.228.177.92 (talk) 00:42, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Taken it as far as I intend to, rather a dreary subject so moving on. 72.228.177.92 (talk) 17:44, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

neo-nazi or right wing?

I think that the Kesselring article description of the bund is out of sync with the bund article itself

In 1952, while still in the hospital, Kesselring accepted the honorary presidency of three veterans' organisations. The first was the Luftwaffenring, consisting of Luftwaffe veterans. The Verband deutsches Afrikakorps, the veterans' association of the Afrika Korps, soon followed. More controversial was the presidency of the right-wing veterans' association, the Stahlhelm, Bund der Frontsoldaten. Leadership of this organisation tarnished Kesselring's reputation.[182] Kesselring attempted to reform the organisation, proposing that the new German flag be flown instead of the old Imperial Flag; that the old Stahlhelm greeting Front heil! be abolished; and that members of the Social Democratic Party of Germany be allowed to join. The response was very unenthusiastic.

My german is virtually nil but I would think that if the kesselring reforms are real and not just an autobiographical whitewash, it would be proper to include them here and to follow up as to the modern character of the organization. NPOV requires, I think, to make a proper distinction between neo-nazi and non-neo-nazi right wing expressions of politics. Where does the bund der Frontsoldaten land on that question? From this article it's very hard to tell at present. TMLutas (talk) 14:21, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

I only translated up to the Nazi period, setting the framework for a fill-in there. My impression is that Stahlhelm still exists but is perhaps outlawed and would probably be considered a criminal organization in the modern Germany. Definitely it was active after the war and Kesselring was involved. Translation for mainspace is more difficult than simply reporting the gist of something, happy to do the latter for specific questions. As a result of the experience of the second world war, neo-nazi organizations are criminalized in Germany so that distinction probably wouldn't apply there. 72.228.177.92 (talk) 10:05, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Move?

Per WP:COMMONNAME this article should be at Stahlhelm. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:51, 28 November 2020 (UTC)