Talk:Dermatomyositis

X-ray image

i think it would be a very good idea to have a caption describing where and what the pathology is.where it is is fairly obvious, but i'm still not entirely sure what i'm looking at. just atrophy of the quadriceps? Toyokuni3 (talk) 22:51, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

what is that anterior to rhe femoral condyles and below the patella?Toyokuni3 (talk) 22:55, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Clinical manifestations

What is the basis for adding "priapism" to this article? This needs a reference. I could find no such reference in UpToDate or on PubMed. The ANA titer levels correlating to negative and positive need to be addressed. It currently appears that the levels are inversed.

Olivier

olivier was created a life peer, baron olivier of brighton in 1970, before he contracted dermatomyositis. there is no rationale for listing him as anything other than such.'sir' laurence is absolutely incorrect.Toyokuni3 (talk) 17:14, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

This is the only place I've seen priapism listed as a symptom of DM

This is the only place I've seen priapism listed as a symptom of DM, and I'm a DM patient and I've spent a lot of time researching the literature on this rare disease.50.71.50.249 (talk) 02:21, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

"Gottron's papules", pink patches on the knuckles and other extensor surfaces, and priapism, are associated with this disorder." 50.71.50.249 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 02:28, 22 July 2011 (UTC).

Gottron vs Grotton lesions/papules

The page currently refers to Grotton Lesions and Gottron's Papules. Are these synonymous, or do they refer to different findings? I was under the impression that Gottron's Papules were the correct name, but a brief online search reveals some references to both, so I am uncertain.Yv-F (talk) 19:48, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

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Dr Steere's article and quote.

Dermatomyositis is rare. Lyme induced dermatomyositis is rarer still but it is a form of Dermatomyositis that responds well to treatment and is "curable". Dr Steere's article has been referenced many times in articles describing successful treatment of lyme disease induced Dermatomyositis, and in at least one case where a patient's life was saved. I think it is incumbent on wikipedia editors to leave this quote in the article in the absence of any controversy in the medical literature about it. Damwiki1 (talk) 19:49, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

an old primary source and a long quote are not how we write about health in WP - please see both WP:MEDRS and WP:MEDMOS. If there are no reviews discussing this it shouldn't be here at all. I will look to see what reviews have to say about the stuff he was talking about. Jytdog (talk) 20:09, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Agree not appropriate. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:35, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Censorship in action. What a travesty - people will die because rare causes of this disease have been removed from the article thus preventing patients and physicians alike from having ready access to vital information that could save lives.Damwiki1 (talk) 07:28, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

We give WEIGHT to things per what reliable sources say. I pulled a bunch of new MEDRS sources into this article and none of them even talk about Lyme, much less Steere's thoughts about the relationship between Lyme and DM. We follow sources. Jytdog (talk) 07:33, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

There is abundant literature showing that Lyme Disease can induce dermatomyositis and/or mimic it's symptoms. You know that the literature and case studies exist but you chose to remove all reference to it. It is a rare cause of this disease, and thus not mentioned in reviews but it does happen and it deserves to be mentioned rather than censored. Wikipedia is for everyone.

It is for everyone! And everyone who edits has to follow the policies and guidelines. Above I referred to WP:NPOV which is an essential policy and WP:MEDRS an essential guideline. The way we work is that we read a bunch of MEDRS sources and summarize them, giving WEIGHT according to what the articles say - we don't enter the process looking for X. That said I did keep an eye peeled for Lyme stuff since I knew you were interested in it. But recent reviews don't find the relationship between Lyme and DM worth discussing. Not my fault. Jytdog (talk) 07:54, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Here's a secondary source that reviews numerous case studies: Lyme Myositis

please sign your posts.

that is a ten year old case report. like i said, MEDRS sources (reviews published in the last five years or so, and statements by major medical/scientific bodies) don't find this worth talking about. Jytdog (talk) 08:47, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

The article was published in a reliable medical journal, it reviews 28 case reports which makes it a secondary source. It's conclusions are not disputed. Even though newer reviews don't mention Lyme Disease that doesn't mean that all mention of it should be excluded from the article, as per the guidelines (do you understand the definition of the word guideline?). You are applying the guidelines rigidly in such a way as to game the system to censor the article. I question your objectivity on this issue.Damwiki1 (talk) 17:13, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Those arguments are not relevant to WP:NPOV; making an argument that personalizes the discussion doesn't help your effort to get this content included -- it harms it. Jytdog (talk) 17:18, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

You are trying to misuse wikipedia guidelines and policy to exclude non-disputed information from the article. There is nothing in WP:NPOV or WP:MEDRS which excludes non-controversial, undisputed, relevant information which is scientifically verified from being included in the article. Damwiki1 (talk) 18:12, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Please note that every time you make an edit to Wikipedia, you agree to follow the Terms of Use (they are linked at the bottom of every edit window). They obligate you -- you -- like every editor, to follow the policies and guidelines. You too have to follow NPOV and you need to frame your discussion in light of the policies and guidelines. I have explained how WP:WEIGHT works - we look at the recent high quality sources and we summarize them, giving WEIGHT as the sources give WEIGHT. Nothing in WP is about what you want or what I want - the work here is to summarize high quality sources. Jytdog (talk) 18:32, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Are there sources that dispute that Lyme Disease can be a causative agent of DM? Is this a controversial topic within the literature? NPOV and the other guidelines you refer to are in place to arbitrate between minority and/or extreme views that run in opposition to the main current of information on the topic. They are not meant to exclude relevant, but undisputed information and in fact, editors are constantly implored to be inclusive of information via a verity of methods where the inclusion is not given undue weight in the article. Adding Lyme disease as a rare cause of DM is supported by the literature, it is not disputed by the literature and there is nothing in the guidelines that prevent it's inclusion in the article as long as the inclusion is appropriately written and weighted.Damwiki1 (talk) 18:58, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

The MEDRS sources just don't mention Lyme. That is a serious problem in policy per WP:UNDUE. The way to solve this is find a few MEDRS sources (reviews in good journals published in the last five years or so, or statements from major medical/scientific bodies) that discuss the relevance of Lyme to DM. That is how things work. You will notice I took a lot of time updating the article. I read a lot and as I said I found no sources discussing Lyme. But maybe I missed something. It is unlikely, but maybe. Jytdog (talk) 19:40, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

No that's not how things work. There is nothing in the guidelines that exclude sources more than five years old, or exclude secondary sources and the guidelines implore editors to be inclusive. I've fully stated this in my previous edit. You are applying guidelines as rigid rules to exclude relevant, undisputed, non controversial material from the article.Damwiki1 (talk) 20:36, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Nope, the policies and guidelines are built the way they are to ensure that articles are neutral and not influenced -- by inclusion or exclusion -- by what editors who show up here happen to care about. I have spent as much time as I am willing on this. I won't respond further until you bring a few solid MEDRS sources to support adding something about lyme. best regards Jytdog (talk) 21:06, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Damwiki1 thanks for bringing up the possible DM-Lyme connection, i agree it should be mentioned in the article, no matter if your reference is 5 or 25 years old, i agree there might be censorship going on by the orthodoxy on wikipedia, and possible conflicts of interest. Anyway im thankfull to you for bringing up this connection, i will not edit the wiki because this issue needs more discussion. other168 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.58.143.45 (talk) 17:16, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

And Lyme disease ?

See also for example : Google scholar
--Lamiot (talk) 13:11, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

I think a section that discusses how DM overlaps with many other autoimmune conditions and that it can mimic other conditions is worthwhile. Mentioning co-morbidity with Lyme and other conditions can better describe the somewhat nebulous nature of DM, especially pre-diagnosis.Rohanbhattaram (talk) 14:48, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Wikipedia for the Medical Editor

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 January 2024 and 23 February 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Rohanbhattaram (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Mhrichards (talk) 16:20, 2 February 2024 (UTC)