Talk:Detainees of the Mahsa Amini protests

Title

This should probably be moved to mirror the main article's title. - Indefensible (talk) 19:47, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Support.-- Ideophagous (talk) 20:06, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

I don't think we have to wait too long for this move, WP:BOLD probably applies here. - Indefensible (talk) 02:22, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

It's done.-- Ideophagous (talk) 06:08, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

Creating a documentation of detainees or choosing who's worthy enough to be on the list?

Is having an English wikpedia a criterion for the detainees that we are adding to this list? Or any and all prominent political/social activists, artists, athletes, etc. can be added to this list?

I'm asking because some of the folks who are getting detained are prominent in Iran (or have played a noteworthy part during the Mahsa Amini protests) but they currently don't have a Wikipedia article in English. These folks are noteworthy enough that news articles are being written about them (at least in Farsi). Is the purpose of this article to document the mass arrest of those opposing the oppression in Iran, or collecting a list of most noteworthy folks that a Wikipedian took the time to create an article for?

As an example I previously added 2 such examples which were removed due to being nn: Mona Borzouei (prominent poet and songwriter) and Donya Rad (arrested for her civil disobedience of eating breakfast without hijab which encouraged other women to start doing so).

I would appreciate some clarification here before I spend time collecting information and references. Thank you. BlueBlack (talk) 17:20, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

You can list them without an English article, see WP:Interlanguage links if they have an article in another language. - Indefensible (talk) 17:51, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

Individual notability

In this edit, Javad Safaei and Donya Rad were removed as "not notable".

• I see a New York Post source for Donya Rad, and WP:NYPOST is a tabloid, generally seen as an unreliable source (apparently OK before 1976! go to WP:NYPOST and follow the links for detailed discussions), so better sources would be needed to argue for restoring Donya Rad to the list;
• For Javad Safaei, I see Mehr News Agency, which might count as a fair source for the arrest of a dissident, since the agency is more likely to be biased in favour of the government and wishing to hide information on arrests, rather than the reverse; Borna doesn't seem to be known in the en.Wikipedia; my guess is that this would be borderline notable, given these two references.

@BlueBlack: - I think you would have to discuss individual cases such as these and see if consensus can be obtained on inclusion/exclusion with other Wikipedians such as WWGB and Indefensible who are interested in editing here. In principle, Persian language sources should be enough. Using {{ill}} (as Indefensible suggested) would help, although in principle, decisions on notability in one language Wikipedia are not enough to determine a decision in another language Wikipedia; multilingual Wikipedians need to present the arguments and sources in each Wikipedia if needed. Boud (talk) 16:25, 29 October 2022 (UTC) Just to clarify: the best way to use Persian language news sources would be if they, at a minimum, are notable enough to have en.Wikipedia articles, with enough time to achieve consensus on knowledge about those news sources. This is a successive process of building up encyclopedic summaries of knowledge and research that corrects errors and is fully transparent. Boud (talk) 16:36, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

@Boud: Thank you for your response and for looking into this. I do see now that there is more news coverage for Donya Rad from sources such as CNN and news.com.au, etc. I understand it's a matter of providing more reliable sources which can be tricky at times if there aren't many in languages other than Farsi. Regardless I appreciate your advice on how to go about documenting and will continue doing so. BlueBlack (talk) 18:24, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

I think it's fine to include them if they have some reliable source coverage, they don't need a dedicated article since this is just a list and not a biography page although having a Wikipedia article or multiple would definitely help. - Indefensible (talk) 04:04, 30 October 2022 (UTC)