Talk:Dhulbahante

Untitled

The Dhulbahante live in almost half of Togdheer, occupy 40 percent of the land in Sanaag with the the warsengeli tribe elder brother of the Dhulbahante living in 50 percent of Sanaag and the minority isaaq clan living the remaining 10 percent of the Sanaag region and reside exclusively in Sool region. —the preceding comment is by L33ter - 17:08, 17 April 2006: Please sign your posts!

The Dhulbahante live in Six regions: Sool, Togdheere (Buhoodle out the four districts of this region), Sanaag (Erigavo out of the three districts of Sanaag), Nugaal (Near the border of Sool which used be part of nugaal and Nugaal), Jubbada Hoose (In the district of Kismayo), Zone five of the Somali National state of Ethiopia (Bookh District and Buhoodle area). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.146.115.21 (talk • contribs) 22:15, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your response, but can you cite a source for this? The whole point is that the current claims are disputed, so any information related to this should be verifiable. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 16:41, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I know tons more famous Dhulbahante's, shall I expand.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.128.195.198 (talk • contribs) 12:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC) I am of the Garaad farah garaad shirshore (samakab axmad) sub-clan.?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Barcelonamilia (talk • contribs) 17:46, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Rather then adding information that you know from personal experience, please add information that we can verify. Thanks -- Gyrofrog (talk) 13:58, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Comments from anon who blanked the page

The dulbahante are the majority in all the above mentioned areas and anyone who disputes this is either a bumbling imbecile or a pro-idoor seccesionist who will be brought into the fold of greater somalia by any means at the disposal of the somali unity government, which is the recognized government of somalia.2ny —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.166.47.73 (talk • contribs) 22:04, 13 July 2006.

Comments added by 212.165.167.73

The Dhulbahante is a Somali sub clan of the Harti part of the Koombe and of Kablalax, of the Darod tribes.The Dhulbahante have played a key role in the history of Somalia. British, Italian, French and their Abbysianian allies considered the Dhulbahante a major oppositional power to their colonisation of the horn and interests. Dhulbahante fought against colonisation in battles such as Afbakayle, Beerdhiga, Cagaarwayne, Daratoole, Dayuuraddii, Fardhidin, Jidbaale and Ruugga. The Dhulbahnte viewed themselves as the sole protector of greater Somalia because of their huge loss of life and wealth, and resented the signatory tribes. After the long Anglo-dervish wars the British colonial leaders did not trust the Somalis; —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.165.167.73 (talk • contribs) 09:10, 10 March 2007.

Notable people

To 75.161.248.2, if you want the people on the list then they need to be sourced and even better have an article. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 23:45, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

A source on subdivisions of the Dhulbahante

Is I. M. Lewis, "Force and Fission in Northern Somali Lineage Structure", American Anthropologist, New Series, 63 (1961), pp. 94-112. Figure 3 in this article provides a genealogical tree of the sub-clans of this Somali group. (I'd add the information, but I'm not quite certain how to insert it into this article without causing unnecessary drama or -- even more importantly -- mistakes.) -- llywrch (talk) 18:26, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

You could blend it into the current clan tree, do another tree below the current one that would show the differences between sources or post it on the talk page first. Don' worry about drama or mistakes. something lame from CBW 19:06, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 February 2018

Dhulbahante Clan 185.13.106.233 (talk) 21:46, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. — IVORK _Discuss 00:02, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 April 2018

As this is an English wikipedia article "Dhulbahante" should be spelled "Dulbahante" or "Dolbahanta" , that's how it is usally spelled by English speaking scholars . Also the Somali transliteration is wrong it should spelled "Dhulbahante" (like in the name of the article) not "Duulbaahaante" which lacks the "H" and uses double vowels. The Arabic transliteration is also incorrect , it says "لبهانتة‎" (Al-Bahante/Bahante") it should be like this "دلبةنتئ". GeelJire (talk) 12:26, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. I'd suggest a WP:RM if you are wanting to change the name, else I can create redirects from those pages for now if you'd want GeelJire — IVORK _Discuss 00:13, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 April 2018

198.208.47.95 (talk) 19:46, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

S/Guuto Axmed Suleyman Dafle wuxuu ku dhashay magaalada Burco ee Gobolka Togdheer sanadkii 1937dii Hooyadii waxaa lagu magcaabi jiray Arda Xussein isaga oo 13 sano jir ayey geeriyootay, Aabihiisna wuxuu geeriyooday sanadkii 1974kii Quraanka wuxuu ku bartay dugsi ku yaallay magaalada Burco, Sanadkii 1949kii wuxuu dugsi waxbarasho ka galay magaalada Hargeysa Ee Gobolka Waqooyi Galbeed . Sida ku qoran buugga Taariikhdii Golihii Sare ee Kacaanka ee soo baxay Bishii Oktoobar Sanadkii 1977dii S/Guuto Axmed Suleyman Dafle wuxuu ahaa ninkii ugu horreeyay ee xisbigii SYL xafiis ay leedahay ka fura Magaalada Hargeysa Sanadkii 1944kii.

S/Guuto Axmed Suleyman Dafle wuxuu ka qeyb galay Dicadbaxyadii dibad baxyadii looga soo horjeeday wareejintii dhulka Soomaalida ee Reserve Area ee lagu wareejiyay dalka Ethiopia Sanadkii 1954kii.

Sanadkii 1955kii wuxuu S/Guuto Axmed Suleyman Dafle waxa uu waxbarashadiisa aasaasiga ku qaatay dugsiga Sheikh, wuxuuna ka mid noqday ardaydii uu siiyay waxbarashada Machadka Farsamada ee Cadan.

S/Guuto Axmed Suleyman Dafle waxa uu ka mid ahaa dhallinyaradii wax ka hirgelisay dhaqdhaqaaqii lagu magcaabi jiray Naasariya ee dalka Masar oo ahaa kacaan ay ka shidaal qaadanayeen ummado badan.

S/Guuto Axmed Suleyman Dafle wuxuu dalka dib ugu soo laabtay Sanadkii 1958dii, wuxuuna macallin ka noqday Dugsiga Hoose Dhexe ee Camuud.

Sanadkii 1959kii waxa uu waxbarasho dhinaca militeriga loogu diray "Royal Military Academy” ee Dalka Ingiriiska, halkaasi oo uu tacliinta sare ee ciidamada lugta ku soo bartay muddo 3 sanadood ah.

Wuxuu dalka dib ugu soo laabtay Sanadkii 1962diiisaga oo xiddigle ah, waxa uuna macalin tababare ciidan ah uu ka noqday Dugsigii Saraakiisha ciidamada ee Magaalada Muqdisho.

Sanadkii 1963kii waxaa loo dallacsiiyay derajada 2 xiddigle wuxuuna taliye ku xigeen ka noqday urur daganaa magaalada Baledweyne ee gobolka Hiiraan.

Dagaalkii ay Ethiopia ku soo qaadday dalka Soomaaliya Sanadkii 1964ii waxa ay dagaal ka galeen isaga iyo saraakiil kale ciidamo ay hoggaaminayeen Magaalada Feerfeer, dagaalkaas oo lagu guddoonsiiyay bilad geesinimo.

Sanadkii 1965kii waxaa uu u dallacay Derajada 3 xiddigle ama dhamme, waxaana taliye loogu magacaabay urur ciidan oo daganaa magaalada Gaalkacyo, ka dib markii uu dhammeystay tababar uu u galay qabashada taliyaha ururkaas.

Sanadkii 1967kii S/Guuto Axmed Suleyman Dafle waxaa uu taliye urur ka noqday ciidamadii fadhigoodu ahaa Magaalada Seylac oo ku begnayd waqtigii Aftida laga qaadayay dalka Jabuuti.

Bishii September sanadkii 1967kii S/Guuto Axmed Suleyman Dafle wuxuu madax ka noqday Xafiiskii Wardoonka Ee Ciidankii Xoogga Dalka Soomaaliyeed, isla markaana wuxuu waqtigaas ahaa Taliyaha xoghayihii Taliyihii ciidankii Xoogga dalka ee S/Gaas Max’ed Siyaad Barre.

S/Guuto Axmed Suleyman Dafle Sanadkii 1968kii wuxuu u dallacay Derajada Gaashaanle, Sanadkii xigay ee 1969kiiwuxuu ka mid ahaa saraakiishii ciidamada ee talada dalka kula wareegay Afgambigaa soo ahaa mid aan dhiig ku daadan.

Sanadihii 1970kii -1971dii S/Guuto Axmed Suleyman Dafle waxaa 2 jeer loo dallacsiyyay derajooyinka kala ah G/Dhexe & G/Sare

8dii bishii Janaayo sanadkii 1971kii S/Guuto Axmed Suleyman Dafle wuxuu noqday Taliyihii Ciidankii Nabadsugidda Qaranka, ka dib markii la isu geeyay labadii xafiis ee la oran jiray;-

1. Special Branch

2. Wardoonkii sirta ee Xoogga Dalka Soomaaliyeed.

S/Guuto Axmed Suleyman Dafle inta uu taliyaha ka ahaa Ciidamadii Nabadsugidda Qaranka N.S.S. waxaa uu ku guuleystay Shirqoolladii marar badan lala doonayay in lagu fashiliyo wax qabadkiiKacaankii 21kii Okroobar.

Sanadkii 1974kii wuxuu xubin ka noqday guddigii Golaha Sare ee Kacaanka isla markaana waxaa loo magcaabau u qaabilsanaa dhinaca nabadgelyada.

Sanadkii 1976kii ka dib markii la dhisay Xisbigii Hantiwadaagga Kacaanka Soomaaliyeed waxaa loo dallacsiiyay Darajada S/Guuto, isla markaana ah Taliyihii Ciidankii Nabadsugidda Qaranka.

S/Guuto Axmed Suleyman Dafle Mudadii dhowrka iyo labatanka sano ahayd ee uu qaranka soomaaliyeed burburka ku yimid dalkuna uu ka jiray dagaalada sokeeye iyo midka diimeed waxa uu S/Guuto Axmed Suleyman Dafle ka mid ahaa muwaadiniintii dibadda ka istaagay dagaladii sokeeye iyo bur-burkii ka dhacay dalka Haatanna waxa uu ku nool yahay dalka dibadiisa.

 Not done this request is not specific about what needs to be changed. — xaosflux ^Talk 20:14, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Dervish Period.

Much of the information written about the Dhulbahante during the Dervish period seems to be inaccurate although its sources. I would recommend that it be looked at again. Futhemore, the sources are books written by colonial officers in a very derogatory and disrespectful manner, I don't these sources should be used in wikipedia. Shirshore (talk) 02:20, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

May 2021

@Dabaqabad I reworded the content in a more concise way. No sourced content was removed. Please see the article again your edit is already covered above in the article at citation [60].

@Shirshore: How is changing it from "expect the three sub-clans of Rer Hagar, Rer Wais Adan and Ba Idris who were considered friendly by the British" to: "expect three small sub-clans" rewording content in a concise way?

In addition, you changed a paragraph in the same section from "In 1904 Hassan attacked the Jama Siad clan and in 1908 the Dhulbahante raided the Dervish and looted their camels" to "For instance, in 1904 Dervishes attacked segments of the Dhulbahante, and similarly in 1908 Dhulbahante fighters raided a Dervish garrison"?

That is the opposite of concise as it makes the text vague, and makes the whole situation less clear. Dabaqabad (talk) 13:08, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

@Dabaqabad Okay, revert the edit as you see fit. Shirshore (talk) 14:22, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Disruptive Edits

@Dabaqabad I would urge you to stop reverting and deleting sourced edits. You have done this twice on this article - here today [1] and a few days ago you deleted this sourced sentence [2]: "The Dhulbahante in Buuhodle were particularly the first and most persistent supporters of the Dervish Movement". Shirshore (talk) 09:43, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

@Shirshore: I have not deleted any sourced material but rather added sourced material myself, something which you have removed yourself.

The British were aided by Dhulbahante segments as well, which this article heavily mentions so I added that to the sentence. That and I have been trying my best to neutralize a few things on this article since there seems to be POV editing. Dabaqabad (talk) 13:26, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

@Dabaqabad I haven't removed any cited text, I might of reworded so the content of the article follows better. Also there is no POV editing on my part, I only cite reliable publications to provide a fair and balanced description for readers. Regarding the history section, the role the Dhulbahante played in the Dervish Movement is well documented and the two are almost inseparable in most literature. I don't doubt there were segments of the Dhulbahante who at times switched sides and joined the British, but this is expected as no conflict is ever clear cut. Nonetheless, please avoid removing text that is cited, thanks. Shirshore (talk) 22:25, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

@Shirshore: Rephrasing content is fine however changing it up entirely is not acceptable as you'd be straying away from the citation. As long as we can stick to adding material backed up by reliable sources and the article remains fair and balanced without any POV we should both be good.Dabaqabad (talk) 23:06, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

References

Please stop reverting

@Heesxiisoleh:/@Heesxiisolehh: Please stop removing sourced material without an adequate explanation. The resistance and eventual assassination of the leader of the Dhulbahante at the time at the hands of the Mullah is very relevant indeed, especially in the Dervish history section. Dabaqabad (talk) 23:53, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 July 2021

In history section please talk about the Dhulbahante Garaadte in depth, thank you. Abdo1279 (talk) 08:12, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.   melecie   t 10:59, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Removal of Dhulbahante garesa

Hello @Heesxiisolehh:,

I partially reverted your edit on this article since the source you cited does not explicitly state or imply that all Dervish forts are referred to as "Dhulbahante garesas". Ferro e Fuoco in Somalia, da Francesco Saverio Caroselli, Rome, 1931; p. 272 only mentions that the Dhulbahante clan handed over garesas to the British, with those garesas or houses not being specified. I checked the discussion you linked at the Dervish article that the Italian-speaking users took part in (link) and there is nothing there that could even remotely be construed as all Dervish forts being Dhulbahante garesas. You therefore referring to all Dervish forts (including Taleh) as Dhulbahante garesas is original research.

Hope that clears things.

Many thanks, Dabaqabad (talk) 19:32, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

February 2022

Hello @Shirshore:,

I partially reverted your edit manually since the section with the blockquote doesn't support the actual content. While it only mentions the "belittling" of Hassan, there is no explicit mention of any sort of distortion of a "motive to liberate Somali territories" (matter of that no such thing is mentioned). Then is the fact that the edit summary is incorrect; these native sources you mention actually cite these colonial sources and heavily take from them. Gebagebo (talk) 23:47, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Removal of triumvirate

Hello @Heesxiisolehh:,

I removed "triumvirate of Darawiish rule, which included a Sultan, emir (the Sayid), and a haroun government" in the sentence "According to John William Carnegie Kirk, most Dhulbahante clans sided with the triumvirate of Darawiish rule, which included a Sultan, emir (the Sayid), and a haroun government" since this was not supported by the cited source. The letter itself does not suggest a triumvirate of any sort, and nor is a triumvirate mentioned anywhere else in this source or in other sources covering the Dervishes. Stop adding original research to Dervish-related articles. Dabaqabad (talk) 00:24, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Derogatory content

I removed content which contains derogatory language that intends to belittle the group concerned. This is Wikipedia were information must be provided in a respectful manner. There are abundant sources available which demean and belittle all Somali groups, if this standard is allowed on Wikipedia, the platform will be disposed to hate rhetoric instead of providing readers respectful and credible information. If you disagree with my action please engage here and explain the reasons why you think this content must be kept on the article. Shirshore (talk) 15:26, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

@Gebagebo: I see you reinstated the degrading text I removed. If you believe such text should remain on the article considering it being derogatory towards the group concerned, that is unfortunate to say the least. Regards, Shirshore (talk) 20:25, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Hello,

I reverted your recent edit since you removed significant amount of sourced material without any valid explanation. I also looked through it and there's no derogatory language at all.

Now I understand that you might be passionate about Dervish or Dhulbahante history but that does not justify removing a lot of sourced content (15,000 bytes). Not only is that disruptive but that is also POV territory. Please cease from removing sourced material. Gebagebo (talk) 20:30, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 July 2022

Change "horse breed" in #History#19th century to a link to the page Suleiman horse (visually maintained as horse breed). This page is currently orphaned. Loopexott (talk) 12:18, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

 Done ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:24, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Major change of power

Khaatumo is formed no more somliland stop writing lies in here new history from august 25 2023 is needed 2600:1700:2870:91B0:71C7:E214:7BB0:6271 (talk) 23:18, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 October 2023

[[

]]Dhulbahante Clan Tree

Joeciliton (talk) 23:17, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 23:35, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Dhulbahante

Maxamuud garaad 1,siyaad maxamuud 2,wacays maxamuud 3,higis maxamuud

Siyaad maxamuud 1,ugaadhayahn siyaad 2,jamac siyaad

2,wacats maxamuud 1,cumar wacays

1Faraax garaad 2garaad abadale 3Ahmed garaad 4Maxamed garaad 5Guleed garaad

3,baha nugaleed

1,khayr abdi (qayaad) 2,husein said (hayaag) 3,yaxye cabdale 4,hasan ugaas 5,reer bare (bare muse) 6,khaalid habarwa 7,maxamed muse 8,aboko muse 9 aadan.abdale (hinjiile) 10,Ahmed said (tuuryar) 11,yoonis muse (ibirir)

79.55.70.226 (talk) 23:05, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 October 2024

Canab Jamac Darwiish (Zahra Hassan) 2.29.52.246 (talk) 00:44, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Charliehdb (talk) 14:31, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Most if this article is true

It only need to get evidence supporting anything when i say evidence i mean real evidence 74.91.118.163 (talk) 01:31, 8 November 2024 (UTC)