Talk:Dilara

Requested move 17 April 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus - The nomination appears to be based on WP:COMMONNAME but neither those in favour nor those against present any reliable, objective evidence showing which version is more common. As the last !vote was on the 18th there is nor reason to believe that re-listing would gain any more inputs, leaving the no consensus the only viable outcome. Invite any future RM nominator to present evidence showing e.g., that there are more people called one version of the name than the other, or that one version of the name is more commonly used in English than the other. The closest to this offered was the prevelance of each name on Wiki, but Wiki is not a reliable source. (non-admin closure) FOARP (talk) 17:45, 25 April 2021 (UTC) FOARP (talk) 17:45, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

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Dilara → Delara – The word Delara is rooted in the Persian language and the original pronunciation is "Delara" not "Dilara". The word "Dilara" is a modified and unofficial form of the original word "Delara" that is being used by non-natives. Wismd (talk) 19:25, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose Dilara is far more common. Delara only used in Iran. In ictu oculi (talk) 20:39, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

No objection to splitting the article however. Have one on the Turkish name one on the Persian one. In ictu oculi (talk) 20:43, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose and keep in one article. Spelling variation doesn't mean they're distinct names. We have 24 ways to Catharine/Kathryn after all. Dicklyon (talk) 03:26, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
• Weak oppose and strong do not split per Dicklyon and IIO, and because, whatever the possible arguments about proper transliteration, most of the listed people are "Dilara", not "Delara", and I doubt Ferdowsi and Saadi ever wrote the name using the English alphabet. — BarrelProof (talk) 07:24, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

• Pro The right decision is to move the page to Delara and link Dilara to it. The popularity of a transliteration does not make it correct or preferable. I bet you there are more Delara in the world than Dilara. When we want to find the original form of a Persian word, we should ask from Persians, not Turks. Mispronunciation of a word by none-natives does not change anything. Ferdowsi and Saadi both used the word "دل آرا" that is equivalent to "Delara" in the English alphabet. "Dilara" or "دیلارا" is wrong and came from a mispronunciation of mostly Turkish speaking people. Wismd (talk)
  • At least in terms of Wikipedia article topics, "Dilara" (in about 20 article titles) is clearly more common than "Delara" (which is in only two article titles). — BarrelProof (talk) 16:31, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Removal of Sibel Kekilli

Sibel Kekilli has been listed in this article for more than a decade (since this edit of 22 October 2009). She is credited by the stage name "Dilara" in about 10 published films that are widely available, including some by well-known directors such as Harry S. Morgan. This is easily verified in several sources that are cited in the Wikipedia article about her, or with any casual web search for "Dilara Sibel Kekilli". However, that entry was removed by Sandstein a few hours ago, saying "not notable under that name". I disagree with the removal. I suggest that this longstanding stable entry should not have been removed. — BarrelProof (talk) 17:15, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

BarrelProof, it's a porn stage name, not a given name. And Kekilli explicitly does not want to be associated with it, as her article makes clear. Sandstein 18:35, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Yes, it is a performing name, not her given name. Perhaps it should not be in the given name list then, but that doesn't mean it should be removed completely. A similar case is Sasha (name), which has a section entitled "Codenames, stage personas, alter egos", and Sasha (DJ) is found in that section – someone whose given name is not "Sasha". This article has a section currently called "See also", and perhaps it could just be put there. I fail to see how her desire to disassociate herself from some of her previous film performances is relevant to this discussion. Wikipedia is not supposed to be a promotional venue for presenting the preferred point of view of its subjects. — BarrelProof (talk) 21:58, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

BarrelProof, yes, but per WP:BLP: "Biographies of living persons ("BLPs") must be written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid: it is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives; the possibility of harm to living subjects must always be considered when exercising editorial judgment." Being able to find Sibel Kekilli through her porn stage name which she used for all of 6 months and was abused by tabloids for is only a matter of prurient interest, not legitimate encyclopedic interest. Wikipedia is not a porn directory. Sandstein 17:44, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Although she used the name relatively briefly and was not as prominent at the time, these were publicly released films produced by well known people in which she performed knowingly without any later evidence of coercion or lack of consent, and they subsequently became widely reported, and the consequences of the later related events led to an exceptional government action as well as public statements and public actions by her. There can be a bit of a Streisand effect when a public figure such as a celebrity performer prefers publicly available information to be suppressed. There are about ten films in which she performed as "Dilara", and a few others with different crediting. Lots of notable actions involve things that happen in less than 6 months – sometimes in less than 1 day or less than 1 hour. Early performances by many artists are discussed on Wikipedia even though those works were not as prominent at the time they were produced. It is strange to run across easily discovered information and then look for where it is discussed on Wikipedia to learn more about it and have difficulty finding it – and then perhaps to later learn that it was deliberately removed or obscured. Adult films are the subject of many articles on Wikipedia. — BarrelProof (talk) 00:25, 22 April 2021 (UTC)