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Talk:Dili/GA1

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Latest comment: 1 month ago by Cambalachero in topic GA Review

GA Review

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Latest comment: 1 month ago33 comments2 people in discussion
Passed. Cambalachero (talk) 13:22, 25 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Nominator: Chipmunkdavis (talk · contribs) 13:33, 17 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

Reviewer: Cambalachero (talk · contribs) 15:22, 19 July 2024 (UTC)Reply


Image review
Infobox and lead
Initial Portuguese settlement
  • Was there any indigenous population before the Portuguese arrival?
    I have found it difficult to find reliable information on the area pre-1769, including whenever the Portuguese arrival actually was. What is now Dili belonged to the Motael kingdom in 1769, but I haven't found any source noting what the bounds of this Kingdom was and how it was structured. I presume the center of power was either quite near the original Dili, or later moved close to it, as that would make sense if it was a friendly kingdom and the Portuguese governor was seeking a new base, and the present Motael suco is just west of the port. This source mentions a few times Dili existing prior to 1769, as a "small settlement" that had a "field captain". I am not sure what a small settlement is; possible a hamlet of Motael, possibly a Portuguese military outpost? This source states there was (at least?) one "small fortified structure" in what became Dili in 1769. Maybe this was related to the Portuguese military who were apparently there in some capacity? On the other hand, the source also states Dili wasn't meant to be the new capital until the Governor liked the lay of the land, and that it remained a "simple parade ground" for a few decades, suggesting very little pre-existing settlement. CMD (talk) 07:36, 20 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • "In 1769, seeking to break the influence of powerful local families in Lifau..." See WP:EASTEREGG
    Could you clarify on why you feel this is an easter egg? I don't think an English reader will get much out of "Topasses", and the pipe describes what they were, powerful local families. CMD (talk) 07:36, 20 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
    An "easter egg" in Wikipedia is a link that leads to an article that is not what the raw text says, such as using a generalization like this one. It's easy to fix, just write something like "...the influence of the Topasses, powerful local families, in Lifau..." Cambalachero (talk) 04:10, 21 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
    I'm familiar with the content of what WP:EASTEREGG says, but I would not agree that link leads somewhere unexpected. I've rewritten the sentence to perhaps better capture Topasses in plain text, as a collective name. CMD (talk) 07:38, 21 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • "In 1844 Timor, along with Macau and Solor, was removed from the jurisdiction of Portuguese India" And to which jurisdiction were they transferred to? I don't they granted them independence.
    They were separated into their own jurisdiction, I have tweaked. CMD (talk) 07:36, 20 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • Don't assume that the reader knows who is Alfred Russel Wallace. Prefacing with name with "English naturalist and explorer" would give a bit of context.
    Done CMD (talk) 07:36, 20 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
Destruction, reconstruction, and Indonesian rule
  • Link to Surrender of Japan
    Done. CMD (talk) 08:43, 21 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • Battle of Timor has some WWII-era photos that may be relevant for this section
    Found File:1943-02-18 AERIAL VIEW OF A JAPANESE TRANSPORT SHIP IN THE HARBOUR OF DILI.JPG in commons which is nice as you can see Dili, also added File:Monument, Jardim 5 de Maio, Dili, 2018 (01).jpg. CMD (talk) 08:43, 21 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • "A 1950 census found the municipal population was 442,378..." Raw numbers are a bit meaningless here. How does that number compare to the pre-war population? Mostly the same? Two thirds? A half? A third?
  • Which was exactly the difference between "civilized" and "uncivilized" natives? By context, it sounds as some sort of legally-enforced segregation, not just a mere "those natives know how to read and write, those others don't". Is that the case?
  • "...although despite being made citizens of Portugal this did not bring the locals any political power." And why was that?
    I have sought to address the above three points together by reorganising the subsection into a more thematic order rather than strictly chronological. There is now one paragraph providing the numbers in context with each other to see the growth during this period, which includes a brief explanation of civilised (not full segregation exactly but more towards that end than just being able to read and write), another on the political developments which I expanded a bit more to note continuing restrictions on local participation, and one grouping together all urban planning and infrastructure expansion. CMD (talk) 08:43, 21 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
Growth under UN rule and independence
Geography (lead)
  • "Dili lies on the northern coast" (meaning, sea to the North), mountains to the South... what lies to the East and West?
    More mountains, added. CMD (talk) 16:59, 23 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • Does the mountain range to the South have a proper name?
    A good question, and it appears not one that pops up with any regularity in sources. It's a mountain range that runs the island (caused by the Banda Arc), so I assume there has never been a strong need to distinguish it from other ranges. CMD (talk) 16:59, 23 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
Ecology
  • "Common tree species there include..." "there" is not needed, it is already clear we are talking about that place.
  • "Callophyllum teysmanii" is actually "Calophyllum", with a single "L"; I already fixed that
  • No mention of animal life. Even more, you mentioned bird areas, and not the birds.
    The "there" fixed, and some animal additions made, plus one more plant. CMD (talk) 16:59, 23 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
Climate
  • Seems fine
Buildings and monuments
  • "In Hera however, just over 50% of houses were mostly wooden as of 2014" That may be fine if it's the best we can get, but 2014 was a decade ago. Are there more recent statistics?
    Not that I know of. That statistic is from Japan International Cooperation Agency research into a Dili Urban Master Plan. This was apparently "50% implemented", not sure what that means but I haven't been able to find a report. As of last year there was supposed to be an update (has the useful "Dili Centre" for what I have variously called the core or centre, I hope that catches on), but I haven't found one. JICA is still active in Dili, so perhaps something will come out at some point. CMD (talk) 12:03, 24 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • "To the east of the central government area is the old Chinese area, which still retains a number of Chinese-influenced buildings" Is that area a Chinatown, or were the Chinese in government at some point?
    I suppose it is what could be described as a Chinatown, although I'm not aware if it's called that. It was an old community, present in some form for many centuries. Most however left following the Indonesian invasion and later events. Would fitting a link to Chinese people in East Timor somehow help? CMD (talk) 12:03, 24 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • There's no mention of religious buildings of other religions. But the main article about East Timor says that 99.53% of all people believe in Christianity, so I suppose there aren't any noteworthy ones.
    There's An-Nur Mosque (Dili), the Chinese Temple of Dili, and the mostly unused Pura Girinatha, but they do not have the same weight. In addition to the demographic attachment, the two churches mentioned have wider significance: Motael Church is associated with the movement for independence from Indonesia, while Immaculate Conception Cathedral, Dili (and Cristo Rei of Dili) were attempts by Indonesia to win over the local population which have since become adopted by the independent country, reflecting a complicated relationship with the past. CMD (talk) 12:03, 24 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
Administration
  • Seems fine
Economy
  • What does File:DSCI3122 Bucht von Dili.jpg illustrate about the economy of Dili?
    Replaced with File:DSCI2951 Timor Plaza.jpg, the country's first shopping mall and home to its only cinema. CMD (talk) 12:03, 24 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • "The city lies within what the government calls the "Northern Regional Development Corridor", which..." Is that name disputed by someone for some reason? Why not just "The city lies within the Northern Regional Development Corridor, which..."
    Was trying to be clear it's a government program rather than a natural corridor. Changed to just "within the government's "Northern Regional Development Corridor"". CMD (talk) 12:03, 24 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
Demographics
  • The first paragraph is filled with data of 2004, which is 20 years ago. Doesn't the 2022 census provide updated data over those things?
    It doesn't seem to cover the exact same things, but overhauled with what it does cover. May move historical trends to the municipality page at some point. CMD (talk) 14:51, 24 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
Education
  • Seems fine
Infrastructure
  • Do we need the opening paragraph? It's just three lines long, and we talk about electricity, water and telecommunications right afterwards.
    I'm not sure how to fit it into the below subsections. Reliable sources on the city's infrastructure clearly note how so much damage occurred in 1999 that in some ways the infrastructure was rebuilt from scratch, so it seems due to keep it in the infrastructure section and it applies to all infrastructure. The "six years following this" sentence is meant to note the priorities in that early stage of total reconstruction. CMD (talk) 14:51, 24 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
Electricity
  • Seems fine
Telecommunications
  • "Most of the only 3000 landlines are found in Dili". "Only" is a bit editorializing, as it suggests that the number is too low. After all, if "Most telecommunication activity in the country is carried out using mobile phones", landlines may be a bit redundant, so it may be natural if they are few.
    Only was there to reflect the source saying it was "not significant" compared to cell phones, have tweaked to perhaps better convey that meaning. CMD (talk) 14:51, 24 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
  • "As of 2020, there were 3 telecommunications companies in the country" Then it shouldn't be a problem to name them.
    Done with new source. CMD (talk) 14:51, 24 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
Water and sanitation
Land
Sea
  • Seems fine
Air
  • Seems fine
Culture
  • Perhaps the second paragraph should be the opening one
  • "The "City of Peace" marathon was first held in June 2010, following which it became an annual event. It includes a full marathon, a half marathon, and a seven-kilometre run" What does a marathon have to do with culture?
    Paragraph moved. The marathon is large annual event that is part of the ongoing City of Peace campaign which aims to prevent another 2006 East Timorese crisis by smoothing over local differences and promoting a shared national pride. This is important in Dili due to the large in-migration bringing people with different local identities together in a country whose national identity is still very young. I've expanded on that campaign directly to frame the marathon within this context. CMD (talk) 14:51, 24 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
References
  • I haven't noticed any problematic sources
Stability
  • Article is stable.

Those are the issues I have noticed so far. Cambalachero (talk) 14:06, 23 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

Cambalachero, thank you for the very thorough review. I believe I have addressed the points you have made so far, and thus improved the article further. Please let me know if there are other key changes to make. CMD (talk) 14:59, 24 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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