Talk:Disney bomb

Interesting article

Stumbled on this article by accident, I thought I knew something about WW2 bombs by this was a new one on me. Good piece of work; kudos to the authors. Wee Curry Monster talk 16:26, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, very interesting. I do hope this is submitted to Good article nominations. -- Zanimum (talk) 14:26, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Submitted to GA nomination per suggestion. --Alberto Fernandez Fernandez (talk) 18:27, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Bombing Valentin/Farge with inert weapons

This lengthy post with sources states that there were some very good reasons beyond wanting to see what bombs did without explosive - chiefly the closesness of major transportation links. GraemeLeggett (talk) 16:02, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Very interesting post indeed. The following quotation was taken from this post too:

“ The Disney bomb was a ~4,500 lb rocket assisted concrete/armor piercing bomb. Designed to be dropped from 20,000 ft, a tail mounted set of rocket motors would ignite at 5,000 ft accelerating the weapon to a high impact velocity. The forged and hardened steel cylinder body with a sharply pointed nose contained about 500 lbs of Shellite (similar to US explosive compostition D). In the base of the bomb, two British No. 58 Pistol fuzes were mounted. The tail unit attached to an adapter plate mounted to the base of the bomb. Two suspension lugs were bolted to the bomb casing. The tail unit contained 19 3” rockets bundled together weighing about 900 lbs. Each motor contained 12.5 lbs. of cruciform shaped flashless cordite rocket propellant SU/K/X. An M111 mechanical time fuze activated a switch allowing electrical ignition of the rocket motors that was powered by a wind driven generator mounted on a conical fairing at the tail. The bomb was carried on external racks. Individual pullout wires were used to arm the M111 time fuze, the pistol fuzes and to allow free spinning of the wind generator. ” — USSTAF, Armament Memorandum No. 3-133, 28 January 1945, p. 1-2.

Project harken

An evolution of the Disney bomb aka CP/RA were also tested during the Harken project. Which plane carried the 1650 lb CP/RAs? I think it was a B-29 but I might be wrong...

Keefer, I. J. (December 1947). Project Harken - part II Bombing and analysis and related subjects. American and British phase (Report). US Air Force. p. 8-54. Retrieved 22 June 2011.

--Alberto Fernandez Fernandez (talk) 17:32, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Clarification of the Location of Original Tests

Article Quote...

Testing of the Disney bombs began in early 1945. Bombs were initially dropped on a bombing range near Southampton.

Clarify|Terrell puts initials tests at Orfordness, flying from Bovingdon and Woodbridge, and live tests in Hampshire|date=June 2011

The source I have - 92nd Bomb Group, Fame's Favoured Few pp 75-76 has an account of the Disney Project written by Pat Y. Spillman, who served as a bombadier on the test flights. He does state the bombing tests happened near Southampton. But, as that is actully in Hampshire, that accords with Terrell's account. He does say he flew out of Bovington, the 8th AF Headquarters and not his usual base. Although he makes no mention of Orfordness.Catsmeat (talk) 16:02, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Terrell mentions, in this sequence, dropping bombs off Orfordness, setting one off at Shoeburyness, dropping more at Orfordness (observing from the flight with Lt-Col Algene Key flying), a dinner party at Claridges on 30 May 44 to repay the USAAF hospitality, more work at Orfordness, request from Spaatz for 15,000 bombs, Col Ben Kelsey dropping live bombs on a "concrete installation" at Ashley Walk, Hampshire, his trip to Cherbourg in August to examine shelter sited between Virandeville and St Martin Le Grand. GraemeLeggett (talk) 16:14, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

That sounds like a more complete account of the testing and a better reference. I guess Terrell was in a position to see the big picture, unlike Mr Spillman who was involved in only part of it, albeit directly involved. He mentions the name of his pilot, but I've forgotten it. I can check to see if it's Col Kelsey.

Fifteen thousand! Bloody hell! What were they planning to do with them? Bomb every single German pillbox? Catsmeat (talk) 19:28, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

On one hand Terrell gives plenty of incidental detail eg what they drank at Claridges for instance but on the other precise dates are few. He also chops between progress with the bomb development and the bureaucracy so that eg after mentioning the invasion of Normandy he jumps back to a March meeting. I thought it best to mention the pilots in case it helped tie in with some other sources. Unfortunately there's no info on what they wanted to do with 15 thousand bombs - not that Vickers could have made them all anyway. GraemeLeggett (talk) 20:00, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

It appears we have an article on Algene Key, the article itself is vague but another source on the web put Al Key in the 8th AF in the UK and off combat operations. GraemeLeggett (talk) 20:26, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

And Benjamin S. Kelsey seems to be the other pilot. GraemeLeggett (talk) 20:39, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Ashley Walk in the New Forest seems to be where they also tested Tallboys and Grand Slams. From this page, it seem the British built their very own (inland) U-boat pen to try them out on. Catsmeat (talk) 21:17, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Dimensions of Bomb

I originally put in 14 feet long and 11 inches in diameter as they were the only dimensions I could find in a written source - Pat Y. Spillman's account in 92nd Bomb Group, Fame's Favoured Few (pp 75-76). However, the dimensions given by Tirrell (16 feet by 15 inches) now seem more likely to me for two reasons:

• They're more consistent with the photographs of the bombs that can be scaled by having people beside them, this is especially so for the picture of the bomb being loaded. The diameter of this does seem to be a little large for something that was supposedly "11 inches".

• Terrell was in a position to know exactly as he developed the thing. He wrote his book about 12 years after the war so much of it was comparatively fresh for him, though it would be reasonable to speculate he had hung onto many of the papers connected with his wartime work. Although Spillmann was very directly involved, as a bombardier who actually dropped Disneys, I would suspect he may have written his account after many decades (the book was published in 1997) and he was relying on his memory. He certainly gets other things wrong, like saying there were 9 rocket motors, not 19.

So I would be happy to see the dimensions changed, and Terrel's book quoted as a source for this. Catsmeat (talk) 08:21, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Lead section

This article surely fails WP:LEAD; I can only imagine one question anyone could possibly have about the Disney bomb, and the lead section doesn't answer it. Lampman (talk) 14:57, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

... So, anybody, why was it called a Disney bomb?78.86.61.94 (talk) 04:03, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Not to pile on - but, never mind the lede, the answer to the question doesn't appear anywhere in the article. --71.110.67.231 (talk) 19:08, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Last sentence of first paragraph - "The name is attributed to a propaganda film produced by Disney providing the inspiration for the design." First sentence of the development and testing section "According to anecdote, the idea arose after a group of Royal Navy officers saw a similar, but fictional, bomb depicted in the 1943 Walt Disney animated propaganda film Victory Through Air Power,[Note 10] and the name Disney was consequently given to the weapon." GraemeLeggett (talk) 20:29, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Photo question

From photos I've seen reproduced in books, the two film stills showing the bomb(s) being dropped may be upside-down. The top photo in particular gives the impression that the bomb is being dropped tail-first, something that would defeat the purpose of a rocket-assisted bomb. Granted, it all depends on where the camera was when the film was taken, just thought I'd mention a possible mistake. Onward and upward!--172.190.128.79 (talk) 21:25, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Watch the film further down. The bomb appears to start falling flat before the nose tips down.GraemeLeggett (talk) 22:20, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

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'The name is attributed to...'

Does that mean that it got its name from (etc.) or that people have surmised that it did so?

I think 'attributed' is frequently misused in US English - it should be reserved for instances in which there's an element of uncertainty. That's the reason for my query.

Regards to all, Notreallydavid (talk) 02:36, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

There is uncertainty in the naming. Terrell, for example, doesn't specify the origin. GraemeLeggett (talk) 11:34, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

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