Talk:Dissonance

i came here because of Brahms said that Dissonance lacks in Beethoven that's why Mozart is better.

I think that this article

I think that this article may make more sense if we group the different concepts of dissonance, especially, from most specific (and least interpretable) to most general (and most interpretable), my proposed outline:

intro: In music, dissonance is the opposite of consonance. Both are words applied to harmony, chords, and intervals: sounds which are dissonant seem unstable, and have an aural need to resolve to a stable consonance. The most strict definition of dissonance may be all sounds which are considered unpleasant, while the most general definition includes only those which are restricted in their use.
Aesthetical - "unpleasant" -> "unstable" -> "complex frequency ratios"
Physical - "complex frequency ratios" -> "non-blending" -> "partials do not overlap"
Applicational - "restricted in use"
conclusion

Hyacinth

I might suggest as a possible alternative, to take the reverse order, ie, applicational -> Physical --> Aesthetical.

I might also suggest another category, "perceptual", although perhaps can be addressed alongside the "physical".

I might also suggest that under "applicational", in addition to the different usage rules and procedures surrounding the idea of dissonance in the western musical tradition, some treatment should be given to the idea of dissonance in other musical cultures.

Also the article on "dissonance" almost exactly parallels the article on "consonance" (or it did, anyway, until recent edits). Perhaps the two articles should be merged into one article on "dissonance and consonance". They really are two sides of the same coin.

All in all I think the article will be more sensible if it gives more emphasis to the idea that "dissonance" is not just one monolithic concept but rather a whole family of related and interrelated ideas. Teasing some of these out will make the article both more informative and less misleading.

In addition, the article should give some idea of the importance of the idea of dissonance. This is not just some minor or inconsequential side-topic. For example, in the history of western music, the case can be made that the development of everything from scales, intervals, chords, and tuning systems to the preference for certain timbres over others can be traced to certain cultural ideas about dissonance and consonance. An article about dissonance that does not mention this important connection seems to me to have missed the point.

Bhugh 19:15, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

User:Bhugh, you're recent edits are positive in that you add details such as that "for many musicians and composers, the essential ideas of dissonance and resolution are vitally important ones that deeply inform their musical thinking on a number of levels." However, you're edits create a single point of view, against the policy Wikipedia:Neutral point of view: "We should fairly represent all sides of a dispute, and not make an article state, imply, or insinuate that any one side is correct." Please modify your edits accordingly. Hyacinth 03:47, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Why don't you indicate the passage you consider most POV or disputed and we'll work on making on more NPOV. It seems to me that the additions I made indicated several important areas that were previously neglected in the article that should be addressed (see my comments above). I certainly won't argue with the facts that the presentation of these issues can be improved, in some cases greatly improved, and that in some cases better support or evidence for the statements can be given. Bhugh 19:15, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

It would help

It would help if they gave an example of dissonance to help morons like me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.57.104.7 (talk • contribs)

Example

On a keyboard, if you play any one of the notes, and then play the note either directly to the right of it or directly to the left of it, you will hear dissonance. Consonance can be found by playing any note and then playing the note 7 half steps to the right or left (a fifth). If you do not have a keyboard, have two people both sing the same note, and have one of the people sing slightly higher. The thing you will be looking for is a canceling of the sound; a beat in the sound that is about as fast as someone rolling an "r." Dissonance, as that, is unpleasent to listen to. However, in some classical and MANY contemporary pieces of music, the resolve of this intentionally placed tension (the dissonances in some chords. Look up C major 7th or D major 2nd/9th) allows for a greater high from the more straighforward, harmonic chords. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.142.209.17 (talk • contribs)

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