Talk:District heating

District heating animated image

Animated image showing how district heating works

Hi all, I'd like to upload this image. --Lautoffe (talk) 21:01, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Reference to PAL technology?

In the section titled "District Cooling" there is an odd paragraph about a project management company called PAL technology that doesn't really seem to fit at all. I'd opt to remove it, but I just came across this article and don't have a lot of subject matter expertise. Dgstangel (talk) 23:02, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Looks encyclopedic to me

Because it can be photographed :) Well, I know that's only one criterion, yeah. But there is a whole story here with regard to centralised social provision in the UK, at least, that isn't quite just a matter of a dictionary entry. I'm also not quite clear what that tower I imaged does exactly, not being a hydraulic engineer, so something about the engineering would be good. Efficiency comparisions would be good too, plus I recollect that some of the Soviet schemes (I think some were implemented, actually) were designed to use nuclear reactor secondary coolant. Really needs an expert, this page. Tarquin Binary 12:55, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

seems like an encyclopaedic article to me now - will delete transwiki note. I am sure it was a useful dicdef too, but as it has history can stay here. Justinc 00:15, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

needs some more categories though - can anyone work out what? dont know the engineering cats... Justinc 00:16, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

New York?

By what standard does "Consolidated Edison of New York (Con Ed) operate the largest commercial district heating system ever built"? http://www.energy.rochester.edu/dh/largest.htm ranks New York 9th, by annual heat sales. I'll be tagging that needing a citation for now.

By the way, http://www.energy.rochester.edu/dh/ contains a lot of useful material for anybody interested in improving this article. SGJ 20:09, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Small communities?

Any references to communities completely heated by district heating? The only one that comes to mind is in Quebec, Canada in a village of approx 600, Ouje-bougoumou. Here's two links http://www.ouje.ca/content/our-story/energy.php and http://www.ouje.ca/content/our-story/heating.php Heliatrope Fish (talk) 08:12, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

You will find plenty in Denmark. In the 1990's at least 80 green field CHP plants with district heating grids were built there. See e.g. [1]. (Not to mention Copenhagen where 90-95% of the population is supplied with district heating as already noted in the article).

--Claus Hindsgaul (talk) 08:53, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Teleheating

I made teleheating redirect here, it was a one sentence article with a very similar definition. It was also already copied to Wiktionary. Google search also shows that it is commonly used as a synomymom for district heating. Question is, is teleheating so well-known term that it is worth mentioning in this article? SGJ 20:14, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

It would seem that the term is in some use. I have added it to the article. --DV8 2XL 20:33, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

More specifics

More specifics would be good here about district heating (and cooling) in terms of efficiency improvements, energy savings, use of biomass and general revitilization of outdated DH systems - promising area for technology upgrades and desirability due to improved environmental performance. Just an observation - there is a ton of material out there on this.

Technical description would be useful

For tech-oriented readers it would also be of interest to know more about some key technical aspects, e.g.

• typical and maximum lengths of the heat pipes
• typical temperatures of water/steam in feed and return pipes
• typical materials and thicknesses used for the pipes and insulation
• typical % of heat lost due to conduction (i.e. incomplete insulation of the pipes)

Typofier 17:26, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

 Added average % heat losses for Norwegian distribution systems.(Matthew.homola (talk) 18:56, 17 April 2008 (UTC))

Should be District energy?

I think it's a little confusing that this article is for "district heating", and down at the bottom has a second section on "district cooling". Dictionary of energy (Cleveland et al., Elsevier c2006) defines the term "district energy" as "a term for energy ... that is produced at a central location and then transmitted to various specific sites in a given area (district) for uses such as space heating and cooling or domestic hot water heating".Babrahamse (talk) 18:58, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Poland

I belive district heating is used in more than 100 (have no idea exctly how much, maybe even 250) cities in Poland. It is very common, and even small cities with pop. of about 20,000 are connected to such heating. Of course not all building use it, mainly big buildings with lots of flats, but there was lots such buildings build in communist era, so as most of district heating system. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.213.255.7 (talk) 23:59, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Where is France?

I would say WHERE is Paris which is one of the largest steam system in the world? The country is missing thanks to correct this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.74.206.65 (talk) 13:06, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, France has a large district heating system. If you look at the French language version of Wikepedia (fr.wikipedia.org) you will find a article under the heading Réseau de chaleur.

Here is a translation of a few excerpts from that article:

In France

From 2005 to 2008, district heating has increased by 9%, with 414 networks reported in 2008, with more than 25% in the Île-de-France. The largest district heating network in France is that of Paris operated by Compagnie Parisienne of District Heating (CPCU). Currently owned by the City of Paris and Cofely, a GDF SUEZ subsidiary, the network is 470 km long, and heats the equivalent of 460,000 homes, or about one third of the Parisians.

Tvbanfield (talk) 17:02, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Article Section: Hungary

There is some controversy concerning the price effectiveness of central heating in Hungary. Before the recent (between 2005-2015 years) large scale additional insulation of concrete block houses and an even more recent (2010-2014) government decree to administratively reduce prices charged by the central heating companies took effect, central heating used to be the least cost effective of all possible ways to provide heating for a living compartment (at least from the point of view of the individual consumer). This controversy led to citizens seeking for ways to cancell contracts with the central heating companies and to resort to alternative forms of heating, eg.: smaller heat generators owned and operated by a block house (50-100 apartments), or other individually owned and operated heating solutions.

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Germany

The cogeneration plants use natural gas (42%), coal (39%), lignite (12%) and waste/others (7%) as fuel.

lignite is no coal?! I wonder anyway since German production is almost only "lignite" or "Brown Coal" (Braunkohle), so it would be almost all imported "Stone coal" (Steinkohle, the 2nd best coal only beaten by anthracite in terms of energy density) since the good coal reserves were lost to Poland in 1945. That is why Poland has the 2nd largest reserves on coal after Ukraine (incl. Donezk Area which is the "Factory" of the old Ukraine, the only thing they had... coal and iron ore). Of course Russias reserves are larger but since it lies in Europe and Asia we usually do not count it for Europe... Kilon22 (talk) 16:06, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

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space heating versus space heater

In the first paragraph the term "space heating" (as opposed to heating water) is linked to the entry for "space heater". Given that the article is about district heating, the link to "space heater" (a non-centralized approach) seems not only wrong, but particularly inappropriate. My suggestion: Remove the link.

94.222.4.27 (talk) 14:20, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

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Fifth Generation

User:NicholB I've added a reference to the Mijnwater 5th gen grid in Heerlen, the Netherlands. At the moment this seems to be a prime example, as it serves a large number of offices, supermarkets, houses, and exchanging heat and cold between them. It would make sense to give a better description of the important new features of 5th generation, as compared to the 4th generation. I've also found a review article about 5th generation projects in Europe, in which a better description is given, and many references. —Preceding undated comment added 14:45, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

@Claush66 and Spitfired: I see that you are not on the same page, regarding the emissions impact of the Fifth Generation and are engaged in an WP:Edit war, well past WP:3RR. May I suggest that you engage in a polite discussion here? Sincerely, HopsonRoad (talk) 22:18, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

I agree, @HopsonRoad. I first posted the below plead on Spitfired's user page. But it probably belong here:

Hi Spitfired whoever you are.

I appreciate that you feel very much for a certain district heating system, the emerging so-called "fifth generation", and may even be involved in marketing it. But when you repeatedly list carefully positively worded advantages that are trivially not specific to your technology in the "fifth generation" specific paragraph, you leave the reader a false impression. Please stop doing that, and stick to the actual specific properties and pros/cons.

Reflect on the info in your sources. If icax.co.uk had written that their fifth generation systems does not cause obesity, it is not relevant to include in Wikipedia even though it is probably correct. (I know this example is obvious, but parallel to the issues we are disagreeing about)

Note, I am not saying that "fifth generation" system cannot take advantage of 25C heat sources and does not have zero emissions at the consumer site. These properties are just not specific properties of "fifth generation", but valid for any water bourne system. You may mislead people in other places, but please don't attempt fool people on Wikipedia. Lets keep it encyclopedic.

Best wishes,

Claus

Claus Hindsgaul (talk) 07:24, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

I just realised that cold district heating (aka "5th generation") had already been described on the page. I propose to merge the new information Spitfired added by Spitfired into the existing paragraph.

Claus Hindsgaul (talk) 09:32, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Soviet District Heating

I just had a conversation on Twitter with a reporter covering the War in Ukraine. I was puzzled that Kyiv currently has hot water, but no heating or electricity. He explained to me that District Heating is a thing in Kyiv, as in much of the former Soviet Union. The article barely mentions the USSR, Russia, or Ukraine. Obviously, the article needs to be expanded in that direction. I'm not qualified to do this, so I'm just adding this note for the benefit of somebody who is. Isaac Rabinovitch (talk) 10:46, 25 November 2022 (UTC)