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Neutrality
editSomeone keeps removing the following reliably sourced text from the article:
anti-LGBT,[1] nationalist, hard euro-sceptic,[2] ultra-conservative,[3] Catholic fundamentalist[3] and right-wing populist[3] Polish-language weekly news and political magazine published in Warsaw, Poland.[4]
- ^ "Narzucanie Polsce ideologii LGBT? Lisicki: To granica non possumus. Rozważyłbym wyjście z UE". Do Rzeczy (in Polish).
- ^ "Unii trzeba powiedzieć: dość. Polexit – mamy prawo o tym rozmawiać". Do Rzeczy (in Polish). No. 48.
- ^ a b c "Od rzeczy". Press (in Polish).
- ^ "Poland's president turns on his former boss". The Economist. 12 October 2017.
I cannot see what is negative about the above, it adequately described what this magazine is, and self-defines as. It is not merely a "conservative" magazine, that is misleading. Rzeczpospolita and Wprost are mainstream conservative print press, this is nothing like it. Abcmaxx (talk) 13:57, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
- Reliably sourced? "Opposition to LGBT rights" etc. is sourced to the magazine itself so it’s WP:OR, I restored explained and sourced version. - GizzyCatBella🍁 16:00, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
- How is citing a self-declaration original research? If anything is the complete opposite. Also the current form of the article is complete nonsense. It's not in any way liberal economically or otherwise, even its own funding doesn't exactly follow such a model and nor is it a mainstream conservative magazine. You've basically removed a load of sources for no reason other than you don't like them. Abcmaxx (talk) 16:34, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
Conservative and liberal, the weekly Do Rzeczy was founded in 2013 by former Rzeczpospolita editor Paweł Lisicki and a group of journalists from the weekly Uważam Rze. Conservative, because it respects the Christian tradition, and liberal, because it supports the free market. The weekly is accompanied weekly historical magazine Do Rzeczy Historia.
- [1]. That’s what third party RS says. Do "Do Rzeczy" declared itself anti-LGTB anywhere? Where? Cite it please. - GizzyCatBella🍁 20:01, 5 July 2021 (UTC)- By having a front page titled "LGBT ideology forced upon Poland" and a whole edition full of quotes such as "homosexuality is against our cultural norms and heritage", and that's just withing the first paragraph? Cannot be more obvious than that. Same with hard Euroscepticism and other thing, very unequivocal about its stance. Abcmaxx (talk) 20:51, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
- That’s precisely what WP:OR is. Also, please always link the source; I don't know which one you are referring to. (please make sure the reference talks about Do Rzeczy, NOT Lisicki). I’m looking for self-declaration you insist they advanced - for example -
We, in Do Rzeczy, are anti-LGTB.
- GizzyCatBella🍁 23:59, 5 July 2021 (UTC)- WP:OR does not apply to direct quotes WP:PRIMARYNOTBAD. The source is listed above, the one literally titled LGBT ideology forced upon Poland. It cannot be more clear really, how is this synthesis in any way shape or form? Also Lisicki = Do Rzeczy, he has full control over the magazine and its stance. There was a source stating that too but I see that's also been removed. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:59, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
- No, this is your OR, not a primary source that explicitly says We are anti-LGBT...You read the article about LISICKI not Do Rzeczy (PRIMARY SOURCE) titled ''LGBT ideology forced upon Poland". You proceeded to conclusions that "Do Rzeczy" declared itself anti-LGBT". Hence, IT IS OR of yours with capital letters AND AGAIN, another pure WP:OR of yours right in the above comment Also Lisicki = Do Rzeczy says who? Do you have a source that says
Lisicki is equal to Do Rzeczy?
- GizzyCatBella🍁 09:39, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
- No, this is your OR, not a primary source that explicitly says We are anti-LGBT...You read the article about LISICKI not Do Rzeczy (PRIMARY SOURCE) titled ''LGBT ideology forced upon Poland". You proceeded to conclusions that "Do Rzeczy" declared itself anti-LGBT". Hence, IT IS OR of yours with capital letters AND AGAIN, another pure WP:OR of yours right in the above comment Also Lisicki = Do Rzeczy says who? Do you have a source that says
- WP:OR does not apply to direct quotes WP:PRIMARYNOTBAD. The source is listed above, the one literally titled LGBT ideology forced upon Poland. It cannot be more clear really, how is this synthesis in any way shape or form? Also Lisicki = Do Rzeczy, he has full control over the magazine and its stance. There was a source stating that too but I see that's also been removed. Abcmaxx (talk) 08:59, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
- That’s precisely what WP:OR is. Also, please always link the source; I don't know which one you are referring to. (please make sure the reference talks about Do Rzeczy, NOT Lisicki). I’m looking for self-declaration you insist they advanced - for example -
- By having a front page titled "LGBT ideology forced upon Poland" and a whole edition full of quotes such as "homosexuality is against our cultural norms and heritage", and that's just withing the first paragraph? Cannot be more obvious than that. Same with hard Euroscepticism and other thing, very unequivocal about its stance. Abcmaxx (talk) 20:51, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
- How is citing a self-declaration original research? If anything is the complete opposite. Also the current form of the article is complete nonsense. It's not in any way liberal economically or otherwise, even its own funding doesn't exactly follow such a model and nor is it a mainstream conservative magazine. You've basically removed a load of sources for no reason other than you don't like them. Abcmaxx (talk) 16:34, 5 July 2021 (UTC)
No it's not original research at all, absolute nonsense. If I have a magazine specifically tiled Potatoes are forced upon us, have my chief editor saying how potatoes are bad, and regularly have a whole host rabid anti-potato activists, have whole issues dedicated to only side of the issue, would you then say that the magazine is indifferent to potatoes?
Also the original text before it was conveniently whitewashed was as follows:
Paweł Lisicki is also editor-in-chief of Do Rzeczy,[1] which provides articles on political news.[2] and Lisicki as seen as the person who is in charge of the staff and the political direction.[3]
- ^ "Speakers". ECC. Retrieved 10 May 2015.
- ^ "A new political magazine to appear in Poland". Russian Media Update. Retrieved 10 May 2015.
- ^ Cite error: The named reference
Press.pl was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
Abcmaxx (talk) 10:35, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
- Late commnent: I'd support such criticism in a section on views or such if it were to be sourced to RS. Does not seem due in the lead, plus the first two refs are the magazine itself, and this means that describing it as such is pure editorializing/OR. While this is roughly correct, we need to base such criticism on RS, not OR. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:27, 18 November 2023 (UTC)