Talk:Docent

Older discussion

Thought I'd mention that in spite of the "in the world" near the start of the article, the term "docent" is almost unknown in Britain. Google test: Docent guide gets 757,000 hits [1], whereas the same search term confined to site:uk results gets only 315. [2]. As further evidence, see this House of Commons report in which an American's use of "docent" has to be explained by the addition of "[guide]". 86.132.141.115 01:30, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Requirement of two dissertation ("Qualifications are similar to those of professors: two dissertations") seems to refer to the German Habitation requirement, discussed later on the page. Most other countries do not have this system. Unless the original refers to a master's thesis as being the first "dissertation"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.58.116.225 (talk) 19:33, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

How do you pronounce it?

Could someone add the IPA for the word? As a British English speaker, the word is so unknown to me that I don't know how to say it. APW (talk) 07:11, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Like "dough" and "cint"98.221.133.96 (talk) 17:35, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

How do you pronounce "cint"? What does that mean?

How come it doesn't go back and sign your post for you? Whenever I fail to sign my post, Wikipedia inserts one of those messages. Anyway, I shouldn't have said "cint," I should have said "sint." Cint/Sint don't meant anything, just a means of trying to help you pronounce the word docent. 'Dough' as in bread dough, and 'sint,' as in "sin" with a "T" sound at the end. Dough-sint is how Docent is usually pronounced. Or perhaps Dough-sent. Long "O" sound, the c makes an "S" sound. Does that help? I'm not going to sign this post, let's see what happens. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.221.133.96 (talk) 09:39, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Where is the emphasis - on the 'dough' or the 'sint'? APW (talk) 19:27, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

You didn't answer my question. Why didn't it sign your unsigned post for you? Neither syllable is heavily stressed, but I suppose it would be on the 'dough.' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.221.133.96 (talk) 16:58, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Docent--Compensation

What, if any other than "thank you" is the proper compensation for a docent who has lead you on a museum tour?Jjadgate (talk) 16:30, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Docents are similar to Readers in several countries

It seems quite clear from the article that the title of Docent is in most countries used for a position ranking immediately below full Professors, i.e. for senior academics. In my country, the title of Docent was equivalent to Reader (until 1985, when all Docents were lifted to full Professor status, the main main difference between Professors and Docents was that each department usually only had one chair and other academics with qualifications at the same level were appointed as Docents). Docent ranked above Associate Professor (førsteamanuensis). GVU (talk) 12:23, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Where is the evidence that Docent is ranking immediately below Professors? The German case shows exactly the opposite, where eg professor is the opposite end on the scale of seniority from "Dozent". Likewise, in many other places the term is merely used generically to denote right to teach. Mootros (talk) 12:35, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Please see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_rank#Germany I think, the intro should not try to fuse some country specific aspects, but merely state what it broadly is. therefore is suggest the this: "Docent is a title at some universities that generically denotes its holder has the right to teach. It may also denote a specific appointment of teaching within a set structure of academic ranks." The rest then for each country in each section, with citation please. mant thanks! Mootros (talk) 12:41, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Why should only the German definition be in the introduction? I see no evidence that the German usage is the dominant one. This is not the German Wikipedia, and the introduction should describe the usage in other parts of Europe than Germany as well. Note that Dozent in Germany is per se not a title, and the usage of that word in Germany is not comparable to the usage of Docent as a title in other countries. While we of course should mention how Dozent is used in a generic sense in Germany (not as a title), this article should essentially focus on Docent as an academic rank/title (which only exist in Germany in the sense of Privatdozent - the only actual academic rank in Germany that includes the word Docent). GVU (talk) 13:00, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

No, the German definition should not be in the introduction. It should merely say that, it can be both a gerneric term or a specific appointment. What I think it should NOT say in the intor, how it ranks as a position, because that is country specific. I.e. Hochschuldozent is rather lower than Professor (W2) in Germany, whereas Docent in Norway is next to "full" professor, which I suspect would be than the equivalent of the German "professor w2" and not Hochschuldozent. What do you think? Mootros (talk) 13:11, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

I think the introduction is currently too short, good or features articles generally have introductions that are ten times longer, for comparison.

I don't like "is a title at some universities that generically denotes its holder has the right to teach. It may also denote a specific appointment of teaching within a set structure of academic ranks."

First, it's not a title (or rank) when it's used in a generic sense, as in merely denoting that the holder has the right to teach. AIso, I think Docent as a title should be the first thing mentioned, because the article mostly deals with Docent as a rank.

I would prefer "Docent is used both as an academic rank and as a generic term denoting that the holder has the right to teach at universities. In several European countries, Docent is the position ranking immediately below full Professors." (could be expanded upon)

I think it's clear that this is the case in most countries where it's used as a title (as opposed to generic term). GVU (talk) 13:27, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry I had missed the discussion was continuing here.

This is what I have changed the intro to:

Docent is a title at some European universities to denote a specific academic appointment within a set structure of academic ranks that ranks below professor (i.e professor ordinarius). Docent is also at some universities generically used for a person who has the right to teach." Mootros (talk) 14:09, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

The Finnish comparison with U.S. associate professors is incorrect, because associate professors are in a paid faculty position. In Finland docents aren't. Adjunct professor is the word you're looking for here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.114.148.242 (talk) 14:53, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Central and Eastern European

This section needs to be reworked. It need to clarify whether it is an appointment or a title, or both. It also should use the original word for each country, as done in all other section.

• FWIW, the statement in the article is accurate w.r.t. docent being an academic title in Russia, see e.g. [3] or [4] oxana (talk)
  • This is completly wrong statement. We have an appointment and a title. For example, my wife works in Voronezh State University and has docent appointment. But she has not docent title because she does not feet corresponding standard which says:

Academic rank of docent may be awarded to doctors and candidates of sciences, replacing of an employment contract as a docent, professor, head of department, dean, head of the branch or institution, Provost, Rector of the institution of higher education or training institutions, as well as undergoing military service under contract, having a doctorate or PhD, replacing docent, professor, department head, chief of department, head of the branch or institution, the deputy head or chief of the university, the deputy head or head of the institution training or substitute similar positions in higher educational or training institutions in accordance with the list approved by the head of the federal executive body, in which federal law provides for military service if they have published educational-methodical and scientific papers, lectured and led training in a professional manner, as well as at the time of attestation of documents:

a) successfully working (military service under contract) in these positions during the year;

b) have experience of scientific and pedagogical work at least five years, including at least three years of teaching work in universities or institutions of excellence;

c) is an author (coauthors) textbook (manual) or at least two methodological papers published over the past three years;

d) are the authors (co-) book (chapters in the book), or at least two scientific papers published over the past three years.

Actually, my wife have not worked on on docent appointment sufficient amount of time. Next year academic Council of the our University may submit her to the docent title and than Ministry of Education of Russia may give this title. But she may work as docent without tile of docent but this can imply refusal to renew the contract by the university if would be other candidates on docent appointment with docent title--Вантус (talk) 22:55, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't think one can generalize. The word means different things in different countries. I have been a docent in Russia, and am now a Full Professor in the US. The Russian (and all post-Soviet) docent is the same as Associate Professor in the US. Their ranks; Instructor, "Assistent", "Dotsent", Professor. This is roughly the equivalent of American Instructor, Assistant Professor, Associate professor, Full. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.221.122.158 (talk) 00:57, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

• In Hungary docens is an appointment equivalent to associate professor or senior lecturer. It is the lowest tenure position (full professor being the other). While in theory it conveys the right to teach, in essence any academic or research staff can teach anything (albeit a docent or full professor might be responsible for the course if it is an obligatory). There is no such requirement in courses that can be choose, but are not mandatory. --Kunadam (talk) 11:37, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

In French?

hoodfdocent, hoogleraar and gewoon hoogleraar. can we have these in french as well?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.111.155.204 (talk) 13:52, 14 June 2013 (UTC) 

Clerical docents?

The article on The Da Vinci Code mentions a docent at the Rosslyn Chapel (docent is not used in the corresponding article on the film) indicating that docent might also be some type of clerical position.150.227.15.253 (talk) 17:25, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Could it be simply a museum docent? --vuo (talk) 09:14, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

United States of America

In America we use the term for people who work at museums. Should I find a source and add that? Cameron Nedland (talk) 16:09, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

Docents at many museums are unpaid volunteers, but some house museums have paid docents with more duties than the unpaid ones.--Dthomsen8 (talk) 23:50, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

See museum docent. Kaihsu (talk) 18:44, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Title of Docent?

while the term used by the University of Helsinki is Title of Docent

If someone has the title of docent, isn’t the person a docent? Why this awkward phrase “Title of Docent”? Kaihsu (talk) 08:09, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Alternatively “titular docent”, like titular bishop. Kaihsu (talk) 08:10, 15 November 2022 (UTC)