Talk:Dog/GA1

GA Review

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• Refs should be outside of punctuation,[1] not inside [2]. hi people*Please look over WP:OVERLINK, there are multiple examples of linking consecutive words and linking irrelevent words (really, what use is linking to Germanic language and color in an article on dogs?). also links to common forms of measurement should be avoided (centimeter?).
• Taxonomy and evolution should be at the beginning of the article, right after Etymology - don't these two seem to relate?
  • Done Coaster1983 (talk) 22:45, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
• "Disorders and diseases" begins with two paragraphs that both discuss genetic diseases and then diseases that are also found in humans - anthropocentrism aside, this is very redundant (hip dysplasia is mentioned twice), and the paragraphs need to be merged/reworded.
• WP:OVERLINK (from above)
• Only the first word in a Section header is capitalized unles it's a quote or proper name
• you need to be consistent with serial commas
• citations do not[1] belong in the middle of sentences,[2] you need to move them to the proceeding punctuation.[3]
• WP:ITALICS there is almost never a need to "quote" something and italicize it in an article, additionally italics have very specific uses. review the guideline and make the needed fixes.
• MOS:ABBR ASPCA should be written out, and the later term SPCAs probably should be also.
• WP:MOSBOLD do a quick Ctrl+F for bold text, it should only be in the lead and for definition lists.
• When discussing terms - they are italicized, not "quoted". e.g. "Median longevity" is wrong
• Avoid the use of: amongst
• The Health section (and subsections) has an anthropocentric tone that needs to be removed. Some comparisons (like with hearing or visual acuity) are useful, others are not (like we both get cancer). This also applies to "Development".
• Besides the "Taxonomy and evolution" section noted in 1A, the "Nutrition" section seems to have some goal of promoting a vegetarian diet for dogs - this is more pronounced with the missing citations. Additionally, I'm not too fond of the source used to discuss specifics on nutrition because it makes claims like meat lacks iron - which is used to support the sentence, "All-meat diets may not be recommended for dogs as they lack vital components of a healthy diet."
• "There is conclusive evidence that dogs genetically diverged from their wolf ancestors at least 15,000 years ago. however most believe domestication to have occurred much earlier. The evidence comes from two primary sources: mtDNA studies and archaeological findings, neither of which are conclusive." Bad punctuation aside, this needs to be reworded so the different evidence is more explicit.
• "...dogs are likely descended from a handful of domestication events including a small number of founding females..." are founding females really a domestication "event"?
• "...native to America..." North or South?
• "...the location of maximal genetic divergence, and assumes that hybridization does not occur, and that breeds remain geographically localized." you only need one and.
• "...dogs generally share attributes with their wild ancestors, the wolves. Dogs are predators and scavengers, possessing sharp teeth and strong jaws.... Although selective breeding has changed the appearance of many breeds, all dogs retain basic traits from their distant ancestors." Empasized text is redundant.
• "Although most breeds are memmetropic, one out of two Rottweilers have been found to be myopic." Why are we picking out Rotties? Because they are an exception? Then say this to provide context (like with bloodhounds, and French Bulldogs)
• "In some breeds, the tail is traditionally docked to avoid injuries (especially for hunting dogs). It can happen that some puppies are born with a short tail or no tail in some breeds. This occurs more frequently for certain breeds, especially those breeds that are frequently docked and thus have no breed standard regarding the tail." These sentences have multiple issues with redundancy and flow - they need to be reworked.
• "Some breeds of dogs are also prone..." What else were some breeds of dog said to be prone to? Remove also.
• "...owners of dogs which may be at risk should learn about such conditions as part of good animal care." Instructional - remove
• "As the breed standard has only to do with the externally observable qualities ...." This is a very long complicated sentence. Consider rephrasing or breaking it down.
• "Dogs tend to be poorer than wolves and coyotes at observational learning..." This contradicts the earlier prose in the "Intelligence" section, stating that an experiment found dogs to perform better at observational learning.

Reviewing article. This is a large and intense topic, so please have patience. -ΖαππερΝαππερ ^Babel_Alexandria 19:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Cursory review

I've requested CitationBot to look over the article and make edits. Skimming over this article, there are a few concerns that should be addressed.

1. The first ref should go, as a source for whether this is a distinct subspecies (which might be controversial) find the Linneaus source alluded to in the taxobox.
2. Review WP:LEAD. The current lead is not reflective of the length of the article, nor a proper summation - for something so long i would expect about three paragraphs, and given the variety of sections there should be more information in here.
3. Remove the lead ref about coat types - unless this is such a controversial or extraordinary claim that it sparked a discussion to require it. (the other two refs are fine)
4. I would also suggest Differences from wolves be moved to become the third section - if there was dicussion to have it placed at the end, i'll defer.
5. There are problems with tone. specifically, articles need to avoid words like should as this can be interpreted as instructional. Sections with instructional tones and prose include: Disorders and diseases, Diet, Taxonomy and evolution (see next paragraph). Additionally what is going on in the refs that are offering two links (one is cheaper, should you buy)?

   The phrase in Taxonomy and evolution, "As noted above, care should be taken when considering the genetic evidence for the origins of dogs and dog breeds." is self-referencial and instructional - if there is controversy about the genetic evidence for breed origins, state that, provide examples, and then move on.

6. I do not believe there is a strong reason to have a section like Dangerous substances. We really need a section stating that alcohol, bleach, and detergent are dangerous if consumed? you could put a section like this on almost any animal's article. I doubt the encyclopedic worth of this information and would prefer it either removed or trimmed down to noteworthy specifics like chocolate and antifreeze (both of which regularly recieve mainstream attention) - i'm sure you can use a ref to point to a site with a list of "things to keep away from your pet" but wikipedia shouldn't be that list.
7. duplicate refs,[1][5][6][7] like this, should be avoided except for highly controversial claims or prose which combines facts from several sources. In neccessary cases, they should go in numerical order (take a look at Mortality for an example).
8. go over formatting with a fine-tooth comb - syntax like, "...years ago[91],[92][29]" and "...years.[93]). [no opening parentheses]" and "...dog racing & dog sledding." should have been caught before GAN.
9. Topics that are noticeably missing: The huge role dogs have played in entertainment-specifically as performance animals (not just fiction, but circuses and other venues as well); Controversy over domestication of the dog and breeding practices; A section devoted to feral dogs (while mentioned throughout separate sections, it would seem that this a significant enough topic to merit specific exposition)

-ΖαππερΝαππερ ^Babel_Alexandria 20:59, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi Zappernapper,

Thanks for reviewing this article; its a pretty long article, so its great that you agreed to help out. Up front, I just wanted to respond to a number of your concerns about formatting issues. We weren't being intentionally lackadaisical about these issues; its just such a large article, and I am a very poor copy editor--my brain just doesn't notice these things.

Otherwise, I think most of what you brought up are things that have been considered as potential changes; I'll happily make these (e.g., removing the dangerous substances section will be a pleasure). I suppose the only real issue I have with your comments is related to your last: could these sections that you are proposing including be an idiosyncratic preference? For instance, I don't feel that entertainment or performance is a central issue to the topic of dogs. The article is pretty bloated as is, and I would like to remove marginal sections. Other potential sections, like a section on feral dogs, sounds reasonable, although slightly marginal. I'll apply many of the fixes you propose and respond to others in a reasonable timeframe. Thanks again for taking on this review! --Thesoxlost (talk) 14:01, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

just a quick response - late for work, hehe. I'm sure those no dearth of editors to this article - if everyone takes a section, the copyedit problems shouldn't take too long. As for missing sections - certain kinds of articles require certain kinds of sections. In any article on a subject which has gone from being painted on Minoan walls - to being made into a god - to being the driving force in a billion-dollar pet industry - to getting more air-time than any other non-human animal; i think all these things are equally important. Additionally, the controversy section is there to add some balance to this article which at times can read as a nice article-for-dog-owners. There's especially controversy about back-yard breeders, culling, docking - all of which is oddly absent. -ΖαππερΝαππερ ^Babel_Alexandria 16:02, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Formal review

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

 

1. Is it reasonably well written?

 

A. Prose quality:

• Most of the real problems with prose are covered by MOS guidelines below (1B). however the following are excerpted problem areas-

 

Problem prose

• "...Asian and African breeds, including the..." do we really need 15 examples of Asian and African breeds? Pick two representative breeds of each and stick with them. If we need a comprehensive list, stick it in a note (like refs) so it doesn't detract from the prose.
• "Although these assumptions hold for many species, there is good reason to believe that they do not hold for canines." What is the good reason? I'd rephrase this to avoid that kind of question instead of trying to expand on it.
• "The frequency range of dog hearing is approximately 40 Hz to 60,000 Hz. Dogs detect sounds as low as the 16 to 20 Hz frequency range... and above 45 kHz..." This sounds contradictory and needs to be explained better.
• "Dog types are broad categories based on function, genetics or characteristics." For example...
• "...but several breeds, including ... are nearly as short-lived..." again, this many examples detracts from the prose. Pick two and either remove the rest or put them in a note.
• "Adler & Adler..." This should be rewritten with the doctors full names and contextualized with their speciality.
• "The paws of a dog are half the size of those of a wolf, and their tails tend to curl upwards, another trait not found in wolves." These are unrelated items, they shouldn't be in the same sentence... there's a perfectly good sentence preceding this one that discusses the differences in paws. Try to reorganize the whole "Physical characteristics" subsection of "Diff. from wolves".

 

• I'm ignoring the "Dangerous substances" section as I've already outlined the problems with it, and expect a serious rewrite or removal.
• Review uses of parantheses, and see if the info couldn't be written offset by commas, rewritten into the prose, or outright removed.
• "Taxonomy and evolution": consider a way to reorganize so that you aren't having to tell readers to refer to discussion elsewhere, and generally make it a little easier to follow, the intro paragraph to the section is fine; the mention of controversy and then the use of only one source for the claims suggests a non-neutral POV on the subject, I'm not an expert on the subject but what do other sources say about this topic? - fixed
• The peculiarities of dogs' ears is mentioned in "Hearing", and "Differences from wolves", but absent in "Physical characteristics" - this would be a great place to expand on the topic which is discussed elsewhere in presumptive language (like we already know that they are usually floppy)
• Instructional tone (from above)

 

B. MoS compliance:

• remove or rephrase words like recently, soon, now, currently
• WP:JARGON you should attempt to exaplain, in context, what these words mean - or use synonyms. Only as a last resort should you rely only on wikilinking: landraces, dyadic, mtDNA, founding females, maximal genetic divergence, hybridization, flicker rate, foveal region, dolichocephalic, memmetropic (probably should be emmetropic?), sympatric, alteration (in spaying and neutering)
• WP:LEAD

• Does not summarize article. Noticeably missing: Health, Differences from wolves.
• Does not mention notable controversies - actually the lack of any coverage on controversy is also a problem, see 3A and 4.

• WP:PUNCT really, most of these problems are incredibly silly things like not capitalizing the first letter in a sentence, forgetting a necessary comma, or adding one in bad place. Below is a current TOC of all the sections in this article, when someone has gone through and made sure it is free of errors, strike it out - also feel free to update it as the article changes.

 

Current TOC

By Sketchmoose (talk) 14:40, 23 March 2009 (UTC):

Etymology and related terminology

Taxonomy and evolution

Biology

Senses

Sight

Hearing

Smell

Physical characteristics

Coat

Tail

Types and breeds

Health

Mortality

Predation

Diet

Reproduction

Neutering

Intelligence and behavior

Intelligence

Behavior

Interactions with humans

Work

Sports and shows

Differences from wolves

Physical characteristics

Behavior

Trainability

 

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

A. References to sources:

• "...classified as Canis lupus familiaris, a subspecies of the Gray Wolf Canis lupus, by the Smithsonian Institution and the American Society of Mammalogists."
• "According to the Humane Society of the United States..."
• Bob Barker and Drew Carey need to be sourced.

B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

• "Modern dog breeds show more variation in size, appearance, and behavior than any other domestic animal." It was cited in the lead but not the body?
• "The dog widely reported to be the longest-lived on record is "Bluey," purportedly born in 1910 in Australia. He died in 1939 at the age of 29.5 years." The article then goes on to say that the Bluey record is unverified, if this content can be verified as a well-known anecdote, then cite that and present it that way immediately... not three sentences later.
• "Recent studies proved that spayed and neutered dogs in general are more aggressive towards people and other dogs, as well as more fearful and sensitive to touch than dogs than had not been sterilized,[80] though individual effects may vary." so where is the sourced counter-argument?
• "One such class of cognition that involves the understanding that others are conscious agents, often referred to as theory of mind, is an area where dogs excel." Also consider rewording this to make it easier to read, and put theory of mind in "quotes".
• There are cite tags in "Disorders and diseases", "Nutrition", "Reproduction"

C. No original research:

Neutral because of above problems (2A, 2B)

 

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

A. Major aspects:

Missing sections are noted above; additionally - Dogs as food, dogs in science

B. Focused:

 

4. Is it neutral?

Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

No edit wars, etc:

 

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

The only questionable image is File:Cavalier King Charles Spaniel trio.jpg, where the caption states that it is an example of "with-breed variation" which is not discussed in the accompanying section. either expand the section or remove the image. Also, we devote a whole paragraph to explaining what counter-shading is and yet a single image would be immensely helpful.

 

7. Overall:

Pass or Fail:

I really wanted to be able to place this article on hold. I am sure that lots of editors have spent a good deal of time on the article. But after carefully reading through the prose it seems like the nomination was a bit premature. remember, articles should be nominated only when the main contributors truly feel the article is ready to be promoted, the presence of cite tags and obvious MOS problems are a sign that work still needs to be done. I was only able to pass 3 out of the 8 criteria I explictly assessed - it comes to a 38%. If i could have passed at least a majority of the criteria i would have merely put the article on hold. I'm more than willing to answer any specific questions and to help editors here work towards a renomination in the future. I hope to soon see this article reach beyond GA and become Featured within the near future.