Talk:Dominion Land Survey

Comparisons to US and Australian systems

Terminology seemed inconsistent to me - why refer to the US sections when the next sentence expressly stated that the Canadian sections had significant differences in definition? Insert your link by all means, but not just there.

Can't help you with a rewrite - I'm an Australian surveyor and know very little about the methods of township layout in US and Canada. We don't use anything as rigidly structured and defined - it must make the cost of boundary definition considerably higher in comparison to our system. Although early towns were laid out on a rectangular pattern (it is easier to calculate and layout on the ground) the orientation was never very rigid. Usually based on magnetic north, but often swung to fit the terrain.--Mikeh 15:34, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I explained why on your talk page, and the reasoning is further explained on Talk:Section (U.S. land surveying). There are no significant differences; that should be and will be one article. The only differences are an inverted numbering in townships, and the fact that we get cheated in the United States because our road allowances are within the sections, not outside them.

It wounds like you do not have a similar usage in Australia; perhaps you might want to add a brief note about that. You can add it to Section (U.S. land surveying), which will be moved once a name is arrived at after any discussion in its talk page. Gene Nygaard 15:46, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This article relates to the Canadian land survey. Similarities exist in other countries, and should eventually be mentioned and linked. The article does seem to run together a bit, and could be broken up into subsections, such as history, etc. Some mention of the personalities involved with its inception should also be included. Landroo 05:16, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Section numbering

Numbering of individual sections is diplayed incorrectly. Section number 1 is the Northeast corner section in every Township. They then number 2,3,4,5,6 to the west, 7,8,9,10,11,12, to the east aternatively until Section 36 is in the Southeast corner.

 6  5  4  3 2  1
 7  8  9 10 11 12
18 17 16 15 14 13
19 20 21 22 23 24
30 29 28 27 26 25
31 32 33 34 35 36

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.201.208.11 (talk • contribs)

That's how they're numbered in the States (see Public Lands Survey System). In Canada, Section 1 is in the southeast corner of the township. Indefatigable 16:32, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

31 32 33 34 35 36
30 29 28 27 26 25
19 20 21 22 23 24
18 17 16 15 14 13
 7  8  9 10 11 12     Canada (Dominion Land Survey)
 6  5  4  3  2  1
-- 49th parallel -----------------------------------------------
 6  5  4  3  2  1
 7  8  9 10 11 12     United States (Public Lands Survey)
18 17 16 15 14 13          
19 20 21 22 23 24
30 29 28 27 26 25
31 32 33 34 35 36

Hope this helps clear up the confusion. Landroo 16:19, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Township Numbering on FIrst Diagram

From my understanding the labelling of townships in the first diagram (and the caption) are incorrect. The 4th Base line should be between the 12th and 13th townships.

This comment is correct. A new figure is needed. The first township north of the 1st baseline (49th parallel) is township 1. The 2nd baseline separates townships 4 and 5. The 3rd separates 8 and 9 and yes, the 4th baseline separates township 12 and 13. Additional trivia: there are a small number of 1st system DLS townships in the Rainy River District of NW Ontario that were surveyed by the Federal Government before the Manitoba Ontario boundary was settled. These townships are the only DLS townships south of the first baseline. They have since been "named" following the convention for geographical townships in Ontario For example Devlin Township was once Township 5 (south) Range 28 East of the First Meridian, its northern boundary is the 2nd baseline (south). The sections in these townships are numbered according to DLS convention. Those that were not subdivided into sections before Ontario took over (meaning only outline surveys had been completed) have been subdivided into Ontario style concessions and lots. Kpgokeef (talk) 22:29, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Are baselines only an Ontario thing? I have not seen them on western Canada maps. The range, township, meridian and section items are all familiar here, and correct to maps I have seen, but not baselines. Kind Regards SriMesh | talk 00:03, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

No we have baselines and correction lines in the Dominion Land Survey system in Western Canada RP459 (talk) 04:19, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry that it took me almost two years to notice this section of the talk page. And I'm quite embarrassed that I made such a blunder in the diagram. I will try to make a new diagram when I have the time. Indefatigable (talk) 23:32, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

It's been a while and the error is still there. Hoping you have the correction on hand and just forgot to upload it? 52.124.126.42 (talk) 22:12, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Moved from Quadripoint talk page

List of Dominion Land Surveyors, or at least a category of people who have held that title/certification. has occurred to me before; just a side-split from you working on that, thought I'd mention it...sort of a Can-bio subproject...likewise the "freightmen" or as the BC/PacNW term was "expressmen" who were more reliable, adn more trustworthy, than the local contractees for the Royal Mail; and were known to get official communications between San Francisco and Victoria and Barkerville faster than the Royal Navy could provide; they relied on steamer service, and between Hugh Nelson and Frank Barnard therein lies a tale...the Dominion Land Surveyors are in teh same category as these guys, likewise teh Wilkes Expedition and teh associated Boundary Commission...."bush professions" akin to the bush pilots....it's been observed that Frank Swannell's career, like those of other men of his generation and environment, bridged the era of surveying from mule trains bushwhacked through jungle to the alpine, over and over and over, through to that of aerial photography; Pretty sure he was DLS....lots of placenames in BCGNIS btw are people who were DLS....Skookum1 (talk) 08:52, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

One thing I wasn't sure about wrt DLS is the nature of the "Coast Meridian". Every source I had at hand said it is at 122° west. But lots of apparently reliable sources also said it's initial point was where the 49th parallel met the sea, near Blaine today. Maps in that Resettlement of British Columbia book clearly show the Coast Meridian touching Semiahmoo Bay at the 49th parallel (which is how I got caught up researching it). But that is not 122° west. It's closer to 123° (see topo via ACME Mapper). Perhaps it's another case of coordinates being blithely rounded when described, or, maybe there's more to it? Was it moved to 122° at some point, leaving earlier surveyed townships out of kilter? The sources I had left me a bit confused on the point. BTW, if you zoom out on that map I linked, you can see the roads are clearly laid out in a township grid, aligned to the intersection of the 49th parallel and Semiahmoo Bay. I believe the road running right on the meridian is even called "Coast Meridian Road", or something similar. Pfly (talk) 09:08, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Coast Meridian Road is a name now used only in Port Coquitlam, and it does align with that street, which from what I can tell is I think 170th or 172nd - the next N-S Main Street east of it, which comes up from the Pacific Border Crossing (the easterly one of Blaine's two), is 176th. Coast Meridian Road may originally have been 170th's name; many streets and avenues in Surrey have alternate names (Scott Road, for example, is 120th, King George Highway corresponds to 138th (136th?) the same way Broadway corresponds to 9th in Vancouver. The Surrey/Fraser Valley street number system derives from 0 Street, which is down by the Tsawwaseen Ferry Terminal. I think 10th is one mile east, 20th two miles east and so on; such that Scott Road would be E-W twelve miles east, 200th would be 20 miles....the Valley numbering system was extended into Mission and Abby, such that Cedar St in Mission (formerly Cedar Valley Road) is the 32000 block. E-W Ave's are numbered from the border up, which is why 0 Avenue right along the border (where teh tunnelling incident in Langley was). Not sure indeed why "Coast Meridian" would ever be 122....The Royal Engineers, who laid out the system, used standard British township designs, starting at the waterfront (on the east) and at teh first possible point on the waterfront on the south...but because the western shore is not the same as teh southern shore/border, that's why there's no 0 Ave and 0 Street (well, conceivably there could be in Tsawwasen but I don't think 0 St comes much south of Highway 17, i.e. up onto the Tsawwassen highland where the border is. Anyway, the Coast Meridian in the Lower Mainland anyway, means the meridian from exactly where you spotted it....and if it's 168th or 170th, I'm not sure; but the same line once crossed the Fraser is that of Coast Meridian Road in Port Coquitlam....Skookum1 (talk) 18:04, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

The coast meridian is not 122 W, that is the 7th meridian of the DLS, which exists, albeit possibly only theoretically to control townships in the railway belt (for example, the east-west jog in the boundary between Maple Ridge and Mission about half way between the Fraser and Alouette Lake corresponds to the SE corner of DLS township 4 Range 4 West 7th merdian, while south of the jog, the boundary is a section line 15 miles East (2.5 townships) of the coast meridian). 168th Street in Surrey is "Coast Meridian Road". The meridian was originally established to control surveys in the Fraser Valley both in the "3rd BC System" used in Richmond, parts of Surrey and in Pitt Meadows and also the 5th (BC system) which consisted of a grid of numbered 6 mile townships across the Fraser Valley. The first reference in the article describes the system and has a map. The road numbering system in the Fraser valley is based on a convention of 8 streets/avenues per mile with an origin 21 miles (3.5 townships) West of the where the coast meridian intersects the 49th parallel. Where it gets confusing is that after the agreement to enter confederation, the federal government claimed the "Railway Belt" for 20 miles on each side of the CPR between the Alberta border and Port Moody. The BC and federal governments agreed that the belt would end at Scott Road (120 St)/North Road which is the boundary between the first and second ranges of townships west of the coast meridian. The Federal government acquired all ungranted land in the railway belt, including in the already surveyed provincial townships in the Fraser Valley. The provincial townships, and their unique numbering scheme are also evident if you zoom in on the map in the second reference in the article. Where the land was unsurveyed the 4th system of the DLS was imposed (where the townships are 3 chains taller and 6 chains wider than 6 miles square to accommodate road allowances. This resulted in a 9 chain gap between the provincial townships and the 4th row of federal townships where very skinny partial sections 30-36 of township 3, ranges 1,2,3,4 W7 were inserted. The already surveyed provincial townships were then renamed "The 5th System of the DLS" in federal publications even though these townships don't really fit in to the DLS the way that the rest do. The Peace River block was a further concession to the federal government to make up for lands already alienated withing the railway belt. In the Peace River block the 3rd DLS system is used as in Alberta, and west boundary of the block slightly east of the 7th meridian (122W) following a line parallel to the BC Alberta boundary, that ignores meridian convergence Kpgokeef (talk) 20:46, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Comments from Students in Wikipedia:Canada Education Program/Courses/The World since 1789 (Stéphane-D. Perreault)/Articles

Allleague1

Gives good background information and immediately informs you that it is the largest scale land survey system. Gives precise measurements on the land that was surveyed, gives information on why it the DLS was created: for measuring out land for agricultural purposes and industrial buildings. Talks about how each land survey was different and gives a brief description of each one and how each one focused on a specific plot of land. Has information cited and follows the citation guide already in place. Adequate use of citations; neither overusing nor underusing them which makes you credible.

I wonder if it’s possible to add more to the description about the 5 land surveys. First two are brief but give enough information to fill in the spots while the explanation of the last three does not give adequate information to how important and/or why they were only used a few times. Also try explaining why Saskatchewan and Manitoba still use these methods of land surveying. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Allleague1 (talk • contribs) 20:59, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

jvzee

I like that the amount of writing that you did for the history portion of this article has the perfect amount of sources for it. All of the writing is spaced out suitably which makes it easier for someone to read. In my opinion, it would be helpful to link to a few more Wikipedia articles throughout your writing to help when someone doesn’t know what something is or means. According to our project, the article will still need to be expanded somewhat more. Overall, the article is well written and organized in an understandable way. Good job! jvzee (talk) 16:51, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

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