Talk:Don Edward Beck

Lack of Neutral point of view (NPOV)

This article seems written as a hagiography. Many reference is to the website owned by Dr. Don Beck.

Thank to check if possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:56B:BD08:BA00:297D:EE3B:CEB5:1DE2 (talk) 15:50, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

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Spiral Dynamics

The segment on Spiral Dynamics should be it's own article. This aspect of Human Development (Graves Levels) is far too big to be referenced only under one person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Roberthambly (talk • contribs) 03:34, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

I am working on this with the following plan (requesting feedback, particularly on a few points where I'm not sure what the best option is.

1. End up with either 3 or 4 pages: Clare W. Graves, Don Edward Beck and then either a Gravesian theory page which would have sections for the different approaches, or (more likely), an Emergent cyclical levels of existence page for Graves's theory as he developed it, and either a Spiral Dynamics or Spiral Dynamics Integral page (with whichever one doesn't have a page redirecting to the one that does. Input on which name should be used for the page would be appreciated, for now I'm leaning towards Spiral Dynamics as the more generic term. References to commercial web sites will be minimized based on Wikipedia sourcing guidelines around self-publishing (which I have discussed in detail on Graves's Talk page.) I think it is possible to establish notability for all four pages:

• Graves — inspired all the rest of this, establishing both significance of and long-lasting nature of influence
• ECLET — base for later theories, research involved cited in scholarly journals as recently as the 2010s
• Beck — SD/SDi probably enough to establish notability, also that his own work deemed worth publishing by major publishers e.g. Wiley
• SD/SDi — arguably the most recognizable of the four proposed pages, notability should be clear as long as the page is written with neutral POV and not promotional

2. Divide content as follows- I think it is possible to meet the :

• Clare W. Graves
  • Biographical info and academic career timeline
  • Explanation of meeting Beck and Cowan, from the perspective of "these people showed up and preserved/promoted Graves's work"
  • Noting that Cowan, Todorovic, and William Lee became custodians of Graves's work and have overseen posthumous publication (but not getting into the ins and outs of disputes among different SD/SDi factions on Graves's page)
  • Brief overview of ECLET (the theory as Graves proposed it, with a "full article" link), focusing on Graves's personal timeline of events and things like his concern over publication to a hostile audience and how that limited his influence
  • Some things about Graves's influence, particularly focusing on his direct professional relationships, and mentioning/linking to SD/SDi but not going into detail on them, their further schisms, or on what they (as opposed to Graves/ECLET) have influenced
  • Brief list of works (as appears on his page right now)
• Emergent cyclical levels of existence (** denotes something I've already done as a subsection on Graves's page)
  • Focus on the theory rather than Graves the person
  • Briefly explain the naming confusion**
  • Explain the motivation of the theory**
  • Explain the scientific experiment leading to the theory (this part has been written on Graves's page)**
  • Explain the nature of the theory as Graves wrote it
  • A very brief overview of the levels, focusing on aspects that Graves focused on, including things like correspondence with neurological changes which are not really addressed in later adaptations of the theory
  • Briefly note later work by Graves and others supporting the theory (e.g. that Graves's arguments about the role of noradrenaline have since been supported by independent work) – the goal here is to show ongoing viability/notability within scientific research, not provide a blow-by-blow justification of everything
  • Note the influence the theory has had other than via non-SD/SDi/Integral theory
  • Briefly note that SD/SDi is built on this theory, linking to that page, but without getting into all the details and factions
  • Very briefly note that the theory has further influence via SD/SDi, but mostly leave that to the SD/SDi page (we're talking like a sentence here, not a section)
  • Notable criticism of the theory (avoiding criticism related to factional differences among successor theories)
• Don Edward Beck
  • Biographical info and academic and commercial career timelines (non-promotional, just noting what ventures he has founded when, and with whom)
  • Explanation of his becoming aware of Graves, meeting him, resolving to preserve his work (with more of a focus on Beck's point of view than on the Graves page)
  • Brief overview of Beck's SDi, with a "full article" link, including a brief explanation/timeline of his collaborations with and splits from Cowan and then Wilber, maintaining neutral POV
  • Note Beck's influence as a person, e.g. his role in advising the various Centers for Human Emergence
• Spiral Dynamics (or, less likely, Spiral Dynamics Integral)
  • Explain the initial motivation for SD, and the aspects common to all factions, particularly as they differ from Graves's original formulation (which will be linked prominently)
  • _Very brief_ overview of the levels, particularly noting aspects that differ from or extend Graves's original formulation
  • Timeline of the factions (SD, SDi, recolored Integral Theory adaptation) maintaining neutral POV (info such as Cowan/Todorovic/Lee managing/publishing Graves's estate would not appear here, as it would be covered on Graves's page; also, the narrative of who did what in relation to Beck belongs more on his page, again maintaining neutral POV)
  • _Briefly_ explain the distinctions along the SD->SDi->Wilberian Integral path, focusing on the _what_ and maintaining neutral point of view
  • Note the influences of SD/SDi as distinct from Graves's original formulations (some of which are currently found on Graves's page, some of which are currently found on Beck's), including particularly notable applications of the theory (currently noted on Beck's page)
  • Notable criticism of SD/SDi (separate from factional differences and personal disagreements)

3. Ensure that there are redirects for variations in capitalization, and redirects for ECLET, SD (systems psychology), and SDi (systems psychology), with appropriate entries on the SD and SDI disambiguation pages. Again with reasonable variations in capitalization also redirecting as appropriate. I notice that there was once an SDi page that got deleted for being to much of an advertisement/promotion— I will be focusing on what it is, not the virtues/flaws of any practitioners.

--Ixat totep (talk) 16:57, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Broadly in agreement - single Spiral Dynamics article I thnk and I would be careful on Beck's influence -----Snowded ^TALK 17:11, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, Snowded. Yeah, I need to review the "living persons" guidelines before doing more than rearranging or streamlining existing content on Beck's page. I don't currently plan to substantially expand the Beck-as-a-person parts of his page, so his personal influence section will probably just look like the things that are there now that don't fit on the Spiral Dynamics page. That should provide a clear base for anyone wanting argue for further influence. I think your recent edits trimming Beck's page made sense and I plan to respect the resulting scope.

--Ixat totep (talk) 17:26, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Relationship between the UN Values Caucus and the UN

Does anyone know what the actual relationship is here? As best I can tell there is at least some coordination with "UN personnel" per the linked references, but it's not clear to me that "at the UN" here means more than in its general proximity. In particular, the phrase "challenged the Security Council" makes it sound like Beck was addressing the SC directly. It's not clear to me that that is the case (despite multiple citations, which do not seem to add much beyond what one of the could support).

--Ixat totep (talk) 06:41, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

He was a speaker at a sponsored UN event - many of us have been to such events at different scales and said various things challenging and not - its a misrepresetnation in my opinion -----Snowded ^TALK 15:23, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, "sponsored UN event" sounds like it is correct to give the impression of some level of connection to the UN, but the "challenged the Security Council" phrasing should go be replaced by more generic phrasing about the topic of his talk.

--Ixat totep (talk) 22:31, 17 August 2020 (UTC)