Talk:Doug O'Neill

Accusations

Do you think that the sort of accustations mentioned here [1] can be added?  Tigerboy1966  21:14, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

They can be added with caution. Focusing too much on the negative aspects of his career (which if added now would be pretty much the whole article) might put too much bias for the BLP rules. Some other biographical info might be needed for balance. As an aside, "milkshaking" has been historically used (in theory) to induce metabolic alkalosis (with sodium bicarbonate) in the blood to lessen the effects of lactic acid build up from working muscles. Ironically, alkalosis also causes calcium binding which actually inhibits muscle function and performance. Too much and you get respiratory arrest, go figure. Froggerlaura ^ribbit 22:22, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Basically, the problem is that we can't use a tabloid like the New York Post as a source per WP:RS, other than, maybe, as a source for the allegiation or gossip. I do have some real concerns about drug use on race horses, and O'Neill's record isn't very good, but we need better sources than a tabloid. For example, this is a mainstream newspaper, not perfect, but better: Houston Chronicle, see also Daily Racing Form, and another DRF piece, and Philadelphia Inquirer. Have at it. My other tag is that there is no correlation to O'Neill pulling I'll Have Another to the detention barn yet, anyway; all the competitors knew about it by the end of May (see articles I just posted). O'Neill did make some passing comments (I saw on TV clips) to the horse possibly hurting himself in his stall, and blaming the general chaos, but we can't make the implication that he scratched due to not being allowed to use drugs on the horse, as that is way too farfetched into the realm of OR or SYNTH (particularly when they test for drugs anyway). Montanabw^(talk) 21:18, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

All fair points. IMO, NYPost article should be ok to cite use of the term "O'Neill rules." I'll add a new source for the rest of the sentence. I'll also change "shortly after" to just "after." Feel free to add your sources however you want. Athene cunicularia (talk) 22:10, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

My concern on saying anything connecting his scratching of the horse after he moved to the dentention barn is that correlation is not causation. We are in WP:SYNTH territory there, no matter how much all of us here suspect it might be a factor. The point is that the horse was about to bow a tendon, that can't be correlated to not being drugged. Montanabw^(talk) 22:26, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

And, he's back

O'Neill wins the BC Juvenile with Nyquist. I can't bring myself to comment any further atm in a way which would not violate WP:BLP. Tigerboy1966  20:38, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Seems genuinely fond of the horse, I'll give him that. Has the same owner as I'll Have Another. Don't fret, when was the last time that the Juvenile winner won the Derby anyway? ;-) Swipe has some growing to do and that will probably be Espinoza's Derby horse next year... Montanabw^(talk) 03:54, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Hopefully he will learn his lesson before the "seventy-three strikes you're out" rule kicks in. Tigerboy1966  07:27, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Sources

OK, I found a lot of cool stuff on Google newspapers, some about the Florida Derby, and some about the Breeders Cup when he entered Lava Man.

• 13 entries at Santa Anita
• Lava Man in BC
• Notional
• Florida Derby
• https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1957&dat=20020715&id=-HohAAAAIBAJ&sjid=B4oFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2899,3207642&hl=en
• https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1914&dat=20061030&id=an8pAAAAIBAJ&sjid=dWQFAAAAIBAJ&pg=5356,4624669&hl=en White Arabian Filly ^Neigh 14:51, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

We could add a bit about Lava Man, as that was his first "big" horse. If you want to whip up something, go for it! Montanabw^(talk) 15:41, 16 May 2016 (UTC)