Talk:Douglas, Isle of Man

Lack of Relevence?

External Link to Glenology- The linked page is to National Glens of the Isle of Man. None of these are in Douglas. Ripsaw 02:36, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

its a page of Manx Radio describing glens of the whole island - interesting for tourists housing in Dougglas. --SonniWP 07:30, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Per Wikipedia article on the Rock/Pop group Bee Gees, Barry, Robin and Maurice Gibb were born on the Isle of Man to English parents. Surepseh 18:14, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Landmarks

This section is now rather unwieldy, it might be better to provide an introduction to the built form of Douglas, the Promenades do not figure enough as part of the fabric...Manninagh1958 (talk) 15:19, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Douglas, Isle of Man/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

I have done a few edits to start the ball rolling. Can someone oblige with illustrations, please?Manninagh Dhooie (talk) 23:11, 27 April 2009 (UTC) Now started a section on Education, once this gets a bit further on, perhaps the St. N's piece can be united to it. No doubt they will both needed pruning for significance or whatever.Manninagh Dhooie (talk) 15:03, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Last edited at 15:03, 4 May 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 13:46, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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City status

I believe Douglas is now finally a city, there was a hidden note to not change this yet, but that was back in May 2022. It is now September 2023, so I think Douglas is officially a city. Can we update it from being a town yet? Iljhgtn (talk) 11:46, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Well, what are the sources? An assertion in an HTML comment doesn't mean much.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  18:38, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Found this from BBC News: [1].  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  18:40, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Manx Radio: [2]  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  18:41, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

A more primary source but official: [3].  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  18:41, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

That's probably enough to run with it.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  18:49, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

the article now has Douglas as a city. your last source was from facebook and i could not access it, but the other two i used. Iljhgtn (talk) 19:13, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

@Iljhgtn, @SMcCandlish, sorry just noticed there was a section here, but I boldly reverted the city edits. This is because those sources cited above date to May 2022 (when the Queen was alive) when all the new cities were first announced (but not legally awarded yet). I had added the note, and updated it after a later November 2022 source and this Nov 2022 source, backed up that legal city status has been delayed, and this February 2023 source held a council meeting over the topic, but seems no results from it. I haven't been able to find any source that they since received their letters patent, which is confusing as it has been so long and seriously confused why nothing has been reported since. DankJae 16:04, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Okay. There is no hurry. I'm sure a source will come to light soon enough. That said, the city itself claims that it is a city. See the primary-source Facebook link. It is a valid primary source even if it needs a |registration= parameter added. But a primary source may not be good enough for this particular claim, so it ultimately might not be pertinent anyway.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  01:20, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Poor Douglas. It just wants to be a city, but can't quite make it yet.. Iljhgtn (talk) 15:27, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

@DankJae I have found an FOI request dated 24 July 2023 ([4]) from the UK Ministry of Justice to which is attached the Letters Patent granting city status to Douglas. Furthermore, I note that Douglas' local council has begun referring to itself as the 'Douglas City Council', such as in its constitution ([5]) and in council press releases ([6] [7]). This name change is also evident in the most recent Council Meeting Minutes, titled 'City of Douglas' [8].

In light of this, which I think is pretty clear evidence of a completed conferral I have made the necessary changes to the article; though please feel free to undo them if you disagree. Jèrriais janne (talk) 15:08, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

i think you were correct in making the changes, and thank you for taking the time to find additional evidence to support this update. Iljhgtn (talk) 15:13, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

@Jèrriais janne, not to seem pedantic, but I've seen that FOI but it seems to be outdated and contradictory. It was named in honour of the Queen for 1st Nov (the original date of the ceremony, which was obviously delayed) in which secondary sources clearly state was incorrect and delayed, so that FOI must be the original version but not the new one under Charles. Why would the council have a meeting in February 2023 if it apparently already dates from November 2022?

The council stated in its meeting that it starting the renaming process even if they are not legally a city yet, its website possibly remains "Douglas Borough Council" because it is legally not yet, despite a website being surely one of the first to be updated.

Members were reminded that it had already been approved by Council (13th July 2022) that the Council would be renamed Douglas City Council; and that ‘Welcome to the City of Douglas’ signage would be put up following the formal change of name. Although it had been anticipated that the Letters Patent would by now have been received and a date set for them to be formally awarded to the Council, the sad death of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II had delayed the process, and several documents relating to the award of City Status had had to be recommissioned. Council meeting - 9 November 2022

But I won't revert it as I am tired of this. So even if its possibly incorrect, Wikipedia is not a bastion of accuracy, and this is minor. DankJae 16:28, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

@DankJae it refers to both the current King and the late Queen in those Letters Patent, as the document says "BY WARRANT UNDER THE KING'S SIGN MANUAL". you're right that the website doesn't seem to have been consistently updated (the site itself looks to be quite dated and infrequently updated), but recent official documents and a recent update of the council's website confirm the change of name has happened. Jèrriais janne (talk) 17:57, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

@Jèrriais janne, the FOI is inconsistent with the secondary sources I provided clearly stating the letters patent was not received after the date in the FOI. Bangor (NI) had their letters patent updated to "Charles the Third" [9]. The council meeting I tagged states the council would be updating there name regardless of them formally receiving letters patent, therefore we cannot use brand names as a formal basis. DankJae 18:41, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

i wonder, and i know this would not be sufficient, but i wonder if there are any editors that happen to live on the isle of man that might be able to chime in? Iljhgtn (talk) 19:25, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

@Iljhgtn, notified Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Isle of Man. DankJae 19:34, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

@Iljhgtn @Jèrriais janne @SMcCandlish, Crowds gather as Camilla confers city status *cough* case closed. DankJae 03:06, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

yay Iljhgtn (talk) 13:51, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

I figured this would sort itself out soon enough; this is not the kind of thing about which sourcing can remain unclear indefinitely.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  14:14, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

yes, you were right. eventually a city cannot hide as a town forever. Iljhgtn (talk) 14:30, 25 March 2024 (UTC)