Talk:Dragon's Breath (chili pepper)

Minor issues with content and flow of this page

The second paragraph under heat for this chili is misleading and cluttered.

Any analgesic effects of the chili are a result of capsaicin. This isn't new information, nor is it somehow unique to the chili. There are already many papers researching this potential property of capsaicin and, in fact, there are already some uses of it ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsaicin#Research_and_pharmaceutical_use ).

Further that, it's not an anesthetic at any point, it is an analgesic and the difference is significant as far as pharmaceutical relevance goes. Capsaicin's analgesic effects are due to over-stimulation (And hence desensitization) of pain receptors, this is not an anesthetic effect.

Finally, saying "It may cause anaphalaxis" followed by "Although this is a standard warning" is pretty redundant; The chili is no more or less likely to lead to an allergic reaction than any other chili. Finally, sorry if I have edited this talk section incorrectly, I've not edited much before and this particular page irritated me enough to say something.203.220.125.183 (talk) 21:10, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Pretty sure that the "it may cause anaphalaxis" is because when reports of it first emerged it was hyper-sensationalized as saying that the chili was hot enough to kill you, so that the statement and its clarification are following the reporting that occurred on the chili. Because of how the reporting happened and what was reported there is basically nothing in the article that is well substantiated, including the very existence of the chili pepper, and there has been basically no reporting on the pepper since the initial buzz and no confirmation from sources other than the owner regarding any aspect of the pepper. Falconjh (talk) 01:32, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Dispute

The hype surrounding the Dragon's breath has now died down, and because of the inaccuracies in the news reports and the fact that the DNA of the pepper is in dispute and quite possibly an infinity cross that has not been stabilized (only an F2 or F3 hybrid) mean many of the people who purchased one of these plants are now demanding refunds from Chillibob...but not finding them as responsive as they were when selling plug plants for £15 inc carriage. The news reports are sensationalist and inaccurate. This article should be deleted in its entirety 88.98.42.105 (talk) 14:51, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Your revisions are not supported by secondary sources which do support the article as it stands now. The WP encyclopedia depends on sources for its content which, for this article, are adequately provided now. Do not change the content further or you will be blocked from editing. --Zefr (talk) 15:07, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

"World's Hottest" pepper claim, not confirmed by Guinness

Hatting this nonsense. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 23:56, 28 February 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Guinness has always been the final word on which pepper is currently the World's Hottest, at least since 1983, originally called in their book, the "World's Hottest Spice." Since 1983, there has not been any other "World Record" hottest pepper official arbiter, other than Guinness. So, any "World's Hottest Pepper" claims since then, have always been decided by Guinness, currently with a lab test presented to them, to confirm those claims. I have been asking questions about the three "World's Record" hottest claims on WIKI that have not yet been confirmed by Guinness--the Carolina Reaper 2.2 million Scoville unconfirmed claim, the Dragon's Breath unconfirmed claim, and the Pepper X unconfirmed claim For example, you can see from the Flag at the top of the "Pepper X" WIKI page, there is already problems with credibility—“This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed.” I have added this same TALK topic of discussion to the Carolina Reaper TALK page, and my own TALK page contains many back and forth discussions on this topic. I am proposing that those three unconfirmed claims be taken off WIKI, until they are confirmed by Guinness? And that decision, is one that the WIKI community needs to make, or modify the claims to include that none of the three, have not been confirmed by Guinness yet? Respectfully submitted to the WIKI community. CraigCarlton (talk) 01:14, 28 February 2018 (UTC)CraigCarlton I dispute that Guinness has to be the only organization to confirm the highest Scoville scale. Breeders of chillis can use universities, government services, private analysis labs, etc. which all use HPLC to derive a value. Similar services exist in other industries where a quantitative value needs determination. It seems obvious that the pace breeders are developing hotter peppers over the last decade is accelerating, and needing or waiting for Guinness confirmation may be an unnecessary step. The last pepper assessment by Guinness appears to be Carolina Reaper in 2013, indicating breeders are not using it now. As peppers have become hotter with each new cultivar, the need for Guinness decreases, in my opinion. Secondary sources - which have their own due diligence to establish confidence in the reported Scoville score - are present for the numbers cited for different peppers to satisfy WP:RS. --Zefr (talk) 03:27, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Origin

There is debate about where is the true geographical origin of the pepper. The BBC article here says its origin was by chili farmer, Neal Price, in Nottingham. Price loaned it to breeder, Mike Smith, in St. Asaph, Wales, who no doubt raised it through successive hybrids to the final Dragon's Breath. Both men are important obviously, but the "origin" is in Nottingham, according to the BBC and other accounts. Answering the question, "could the Dragon's Breath have been created and made notable at all if not by Neal Price's original horticulture in Nottingham?" is a "no": the origin of the plant was Nottinghamshire, not Wales. --Zefr (talk) 22:55, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

While the pepper wouldn't have been created without Neal Price and he created the original plant, the Dragon's Breath pepper was bred and created by Mike Smith. As this article talks about the cultivar and not the plant, having the breeder origin listed as Neal in Nottingham makes Mike Smith's contribution appear to be less than it was. Mike Smith created the record breaking pepper, not Neal Price. The pepper is also named after the Welsh Dragon by Mike Smith as he is from Wales. Texsuo132 (talk) 14:03, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

Texsuo132, what you state is true (as I correctly summarized above) and the article correctly discusses this under Development. Your debate of "origin", however, is analogous to debating an invention that has been modified or improved in multiple ways by different succeeding people (consider the first car, computer, or cell phone, etc.), yet the "invention" (or "origin") resides with the person who started the process. The article adequately acknowledges the respective roles of Price and Smith, and the name, Dragon's Breath, honors Smith's work to enhance the pepper characteristics. --Zefr (talk) 15:35, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

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