Talk:Dragon Quest IV/Archive 1

Archive 1

Reception

Some info has been added about how this game is regarded as the best Dragon Warrior in America, and how it is the most difficult to obtain. Now, I agree on this needing citations, so please add them. Otherwise, I guess the change will be taken out. Icecypher 18:22, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Dq4-2.jpg

Image:Dq4-2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:G08413zuyoh.jpg

Image:G08413zuyoh.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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dark doriad merge

Shouldnt be merged. Evaunit♥666♥ 00:47, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Don't know. We have also a tag someone put thinking the article was too long. Merging would only increase the size.Jinnai (talk) 21:58, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

as much as i love dark doriad, the article seems more like a joke than something someone seriously thought should be on wikipedia. frankly, im surprised it hasnt been deleted yet. Evaunit♥666♥ 00:07, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

seems to me, it is not useful to this page, it was a minor enemy, not even a boss. Sgetz (talk) 19:35, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

so no merge? im gonna wait a day and then take it down. Evaunit♥666♥ 03:23, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Release in America

With the only info being a generic e-mail from Square Enix that isn't even quoted anywhere, should this even be in the article? I mean, "Email from Square-Enix North America indicating that this title is not in the works for any outside release at this time." isn't a very good source and is quite vague.--Gocchin (talk) 13:07, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree. Evaunit♥666♥ 00:38, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I originally added this item. Here is the info I have on this Sgetz01:22, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Message sent to Square-Enix:

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Sent: Feb 19, 2008 10:11:24 AM

Subject: DS Games

I am just a fan, and I know my voice does not count for much, but I was wondering if there is any way to know if you, Square-Enix, might be releasing in the future the DS Remakes of the Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy games that have been or are being released in Japan, here in the USA?

I am a big fan of all of the Core Dragon Quest games that have come out in the US (As Dragon Warrior) as well as the original, core Final Fantasy Games.

Thank you for your time, and I do hope to see more of your great games here in the US soon!

Thank you

Their Reply:

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From: Square Enix Customer Support [1]

Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 3:25 PM

Subject: RE: DS Games (#8463-94560008-8560)

Thank you for contacting SQUARE ENIX Customer Support,

We hope this letter answers your questions.

Our parent company, SQUARE ENIX Co., Ltd. of Japan, has no current plans to re-release that particular title at this time. This is not to say that it will never happen, it's just that SQUARE ENIX of Japan is currently focusing on numerous other projects.

We hope that this information has been of some assistance, and we apologize for any inconvenience.

Thanks, Neil- SQUARE ENIX Customer Support www.square-enix.com

That is the Email I was referencing, and am not sure if it is of value, or how to cite that information. Sorry if I posted it wrong before

It sounds very much like the customer support representative was confused by your question. You referred to the remakes as "future" when Dragon Quest IV is already out. I think the representative believed that you were asking IF they would be remade (noting the "re-release" written in the response). I don't know. I don't think it's a good basis. I think it'd be better to just remove the comment until Square Enix comes out and says "We are not releasing the DQIV remake in America." which they haven't.--Gocchin (talk) 12:47, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough, as it was something I added, I have removed this information. Sgetz (talk) 16:31, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Dragon Quest IV: Chapters of the Chosen?

Even if Dragon Quest IV: Chapters of the Chosen is the official title for the DS version, the article should be moved back to Dragon Warrior IV, since the DS version is a re-release of the NES version. --Silver Edge (talk) 14:06, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

It has been agreed here to use Dragon Quest IV: Chapters of the Chosen. Dragon Warrior IV is a name which has been used for only one version of the game. Granted, Dragon Quest IV: Chapters of the Chosen has been used only once too, but it has the particularity of being a quasi-translation of the Japanese title, Dragon Quest IV: Michibikareshi Monotachi (a literal translation would be "Those who are shown the way"). Thus one could argue that it pertains to all three versions (Famicom, PlayStation, Nintendo DS). The article guidelines are rather broad on this case, allowing subprojects to refine the naming conventions. The Final Fantasy wikiproject for instance applies a similar reasoning to the articles Final Fantasy IV and Final Fantasy VI. All in all, Dragon Quest IV: Chapters of the Chosen is the best name for the article as it lessens confusion and does not go against any guideline. Kariteh (talk) 14:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't agree with the new name being used. The original article should still be Dragon Warrior IV, and then a new page should be made for the NDS version, much like Final Fantasy IV and other games were handled. I know everyone discussed it over on the main page, but it seems like some of that should have been here. Sgetz (talk) 13:12, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Does anyone think there's going to be enough different gameplay/coverage to have enough info to merit a new article? If there's not a lot to talk about, it'd be simpler to just have a sectionm on here for the game. I'd be all for a new article if there was a ton of new stuff to fill it up with. Evaunit♥666♥ 22:56, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I would day no. According to the article this remake is similar to the older PlayStation remake which does not have it onw article. The own difference between the two remkaes was the DS remake had improvements to the graphics and sound. I don't any reason why this ramake needs it own article. --76.69.166.248 (talk) 22:33, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

So then it would seem it's good for right now. Evaunit♥666♥ 00:08, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Dragon Quest IV: Chapters of the Chosen - Differences between DW IV and DS Remake?

How should the name changes of people and locations be handled for the DS Remake, as it does have some impact on the story with many of the characters getting new names or surnames and locations changing to match closer to original translations. Also, how should the dialog localizations be added to this article, such as Ragnar McRyan's area being Scotish, Alena's being Rusian, Taloon being Irish, Mara? and Nara? being French? Sgetz (talk) 14:12, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I would put the new names of people in the list of characters along with their old names then use (probably) the new names in the plot section. As for other changes, they can go in the DS remake section. Evaunit♥666♥ 00:17, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I started tonight adding in all of the new names and locations from the Nintendo Power Article. I will update more in the plot as I have time. Sgetz (talk) 01:04, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

It would be really helpful if you used citations from NP. Thanks! Evaunit♥666♥ 00:22, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I do not follow. I cited the Nintendo Power Article with each change I made. It is Ref 5 on the list. Sgetz (talk) 23:13, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I hadnt actually looked at the article yet. It was just a friendly reminder. Evaunit♥666♥ 00:11, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

No problem, I just was a bit confused by your comment before. Does anyone have any of the other names, or any sources that confirms the Necrosaro change to Death Psaro? Sgetz (talk) 19:33, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I looked around and couldnt find anything about this death psaro business (why would they change the coolest dq name ever?!)Evaunit♥666♥ 01:17, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

There has been a lot of talk on some of the Game Forums that the new translation of his name will be Psaro. Apperently there was a Necrosaro type monster in Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker, named Psaro. Guess I will wait for something concrete forDQIV before I chane it on this. Sgetz (talk) 19:22, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Screen Shot for DS

Has anyone come accross any good screen shots for the English DS release that really shows the two screens being used. It would be nice to use an image of either in town or overworld showing the map being used, unless a battle screen would be more infromative. Any thoughts?Sgetz (talk) 13:47, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Legacy

Why was the Nintendo Power information ranking the game 18th out of 20 that is referenced by the issue of Nintendo Power it appears in removed and then re-added? I feel that it should be here as it is referenced. Is there a better place for it instead of in the Legacy. Sgetz (talk) 16:25, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Never mind, saw the reason it was deleted and fixed the information there. Sgetz (talk) 16:25, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Uped release date

On Nintendo's upcoming DS game list on there e3 press site, it list DQIV as coming out July 22ed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.8.215.187 (talk) 20:45, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

According to one site it appears to be a typo. [[2]]. Granted it is not the most reliabe source but I think the official E3 press release with the original date mentioned in the article should be suffucuent in this case. by it does make sense that the game would not be released on the smae day as Final Fanasty IV DS. In short, the relase date should stay where at this time. --76.66.186.101 (talk) 05:42, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Also for something more offical. The E3 trailer for the game lists the September release date and that was just relased yesterday the 15th. [[3]] In the end this date confusion is most likely a case of this game being confused with Final Fantasy IV. --76.66.186.101 (talk) 05:56, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

European Subtitle Translations

Was looking today at http://www.dragonquest-game.co.uk, and see that they have listed all of the different language translations for Dragon Quest: The Chapters of the Chosen.

1. French - L'epopée des Elus
2. German - Die Chronik der Erkorenen
3. Italian - Le cronache dei prescelti
4. Spanish - Capitulos de los Elegidos

Should this be in the article somewhere? Sgetz (talk) 15:24, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

It's interesting info, but i dunno if it belongs on the english wikipedia. Have you seen similar info on other articles? Evaunit♥666♥ 23:44, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

No, you are right. I did not realize until looking more into it that Dragon Quest VIII had the same treatment done as well. This would be only useful on the other language pages of Dragon Quest IV. Sgetz (talk) 13:24, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree as well that they should no be included. From what I see we don't usually include non english titles unless it is the original name of a game made in a forien country. In most cases that country is Japan. --76.71.208.18 (talk) 01:25, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good then! Evaunit♥666♥ 05:18, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

The length of this article or section may adversely affect readability

I am not seeing this as being any longer than any of the other Dragon Quest Games, and out of most of them this is one of the most complete with in depth descriptions of the characters. I do not see that anything would do well to be split off into different articles. Thoughts? Sgetz 01:44, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

The articles for the remakes could be developed into separate sections (like the Final Fantasy IV DS article), but that may not affect the length enough.--Gocchin (talk) 12:47, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Should the Chapters that make up the story and the characters be split out? This has been done for some of the Final Fantasy Games. I guess I am just not sure what anyone was thinking about the original length there. Sgetz (talk) 16:33, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't think there should be any splitting into different articles. The problem is that there is too much information plotwise, and that makes it harder to understand and it goes against (somewhat) wikipedias standards of notability. I had been thinking about trimming it down a bit, but never got around to it. Evaunit♥666♥ 04:15, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

The plot section slightly borders on being overlong, but not egregiously so. The largest I see this article in recent history is only 41,778 bytes. According to WP:SIZE there isn't much cause for worry until 80-100KB. The article is also fairly well organized. I don't see any blantently appropriate ways of splitting the article. An argument can be made for splitting the remake, but the argument against that split is valid too (personally, I don't see enough of a difference to warrant separate articles). I don't think this tag is warranted. I'm removing it. -Verdatum (talk) 22:34, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Box art for the infobox

Should the box art for the DS version (with the new title) replace the original Dragon Warrior IV NES box art in the infobox at the top of the article? I was thinking it should, but I wanted to check with everyone else. --Evice (talk) 02:43, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

What I would do is make sure that both covers are in the article. You could keep the old one in the infobox and have the new one where it talks about the DS remake or you could put the new one in the infobox and move the old one...to somewhere else in the article. Evaunit♥666♥ 04:27, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

No, fair-use policies are against the usage of multiple box art. One is enough to identify the game. Remember, the fact that we're even allowed to use copyrighted images on a free encyclopedia is exceptional. Kariteh (talk) 07:51, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

well its good that someone knows what theyre talking about : ). i still dont like the idea od getting rid of the original us release box, but theres probably a policy that says it should be replaced. Evaunit♥666♥ 03:09, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Looking at many other articles, Like the DQ III, I do not see a reason we cannot leave the original box art in the info box, and leave the re-release box art down in the DS area (where it is already placed). The DQ III article has been approved with both for quite some time, so I do not see any reason to change this one. Sgetz (talk) 23:36, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

I suggest you read the WP:NFCC policies. Kariteh (talk) 08:28, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I have read the policy, and see that it does mention not to use multiple items if one can convey the other, but the original box is a different game completely than the new box art. Both images were listed with fair use criteria to be on this page, and had not been brought up by any bots or concerns from Square-Enix before. Just do not see that they need to be deleted from this page. Sgetz (talk) 00:18, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Could it be argued that the original NES cover is necessary to show how the series has evolved. The new DS cover uses the current DQ logo and depicts the characters in Akira Toriyama's style. However, back in the NES days, the Dragon Warrior games featured "Americanized" covers. Is that enough reason, if explained in the Development section, to keep both images? Evaunit♥666♥ 00:20, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

• The second piece of box art is merely decorative and should be removed - it fails WP:NFCC#8 (significance) amongst other things, as it doesn't add anything to the reader's understanding of the game. Black Kite 08:51, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

• The significance is that the Original Box art and the New Box art should be here to show off that this is actually two different games released almost 20 years apart in the USA. By having them both we can show off that in fact the game originally was released in the USA as Dragon Warrior IV for the NES with a very plain cover, and that when the new release came out for the Nintendo DS, it was given a fresh new cover featuring original artwork and the official Dragon Quest Logo, which is the first time this game in the USA was officially titled Dragon Quest IV. It is not a redundant image. One box cover for Dragon Warrior IV on the NES by ENIX and one box cover for Dragon Quest IV: Chapters of the Chosen for the Nintendo DS by Square-Enix. Both images have full rationale as to why they are on this site. Showing both helps to clarify information that explains the difference between the two different games. Sgetz (talk) 12:43, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

I certainly don't want to start any arguments, but I fail to see how my explanation for keeping both box covers still makes them only "decorative." Is that not a legitimate reason? Evaunit♥666♥ 01:19, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm usually pretty good at being objective about these sort of policy decisions, but I must admit I may have potential for bias here, as this has been my all-time favorite game for ages. Still I think including both box art covers is appropriate, being that it is a remake, not a rerelease, and thus borderline appropriate for it's own article. Further, if the original Japanese box art for the Famicon release was done by Akira Toriyama as was the case with many of the other games in the series, then it would be appropriate as well, as his contributions towards character design are notably significant. You'll note the other WP entries contain the original Japanese box-art. -Verdatum (talk) 22:48, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I was looking at the article today (because im so happy that this game finallyyy came out) and was wondering about the infobox covers. I agree that the Japanese cover would be a useful addition as well, but should they all go into the user box? It's fine, I mean, it just looks a bit messy to my ocd self.Evaunit♥666♥ 23:58, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Review table

The table is completely unnecessary. There is no Reception section for it to go in. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 00:55, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Shouldn't the article be seperate?

A page for the original game, and a page for the NDS Remake since FFIVDS got its own page?

SirRagnar (talk) 17:19, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

As I understand it, the differences between FFIV and FFIVDS are more dramatic than the differences between the original DQIV and its' two remakes. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 23:18, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. I think we can handle both on this article.Evaunit♥666♥ 01:28, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

As long as we leave what is present when talking about the previous versions, I do not think there is enough different or new to warrant a new page. Sgetz (talk) 14:27, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Except for the fact that the stupid new names and bullshit Fantasy Counterpart Cultures fill me with murderous rage, and I'm sure that there are many other people who feel the same way. --08:04, 30 July 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.183.177 (talk)

Also even if we did split it would make more sense to make the article about the PlayStation remake that the DS one was based on. --76.71.209.20 (talk) 22:06, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Dialogue

Does anyone else find this section a little confusing. Is there a controversial debate raging about whether the game uses accents or dialects? Is it it racist? Does it encourage cross-cultural understanding? The passage is as confusing as the source to me. How on earth does the use of regional dialects poke fun at people from 'less fortunate' backgrounds?

The fact that the game includes 13 regional dialects and maybe a list of what they are and which areas speak them, I would think was note-worthy enough without over-weighing the paragraph with the debate. What do others think? Calindreams (talk) 08:29, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

The source is one man's opinion on an issue that may or may not be relevant to us. If the section is worth keeping, it needs a serious rewrite, just to make it coherant. I don't think a list of who has a certain dialect is going to work, but maybe a few notable examples of dialect would. Also, I would advise that we replace the EBGames ref with, say, [this one]? Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 05:49, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

The use of dialects has been discussed by at least one person at Gamasutra which is publishes academic research articles, so something about them should be kept.陣内_Jinnai 19:49, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I'll go with you on that. I'll see if I can do anything about the readability, but if someone beats me to it, God bless you. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 06:46, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Finished. Larrythefunkyferret (talk) 07:07, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

images in infobox

I added the DQ4 image to the infobox because based on the title name for this article and the purpose of what the images are suppose to do, assure the reader they are in the appropriate article, that the original release conflicts with this because there is a title mismatch. However, I believe its important to have the original box cover and other than the infobox I'm not sure where it should go.陣内_Jinnai 19:48, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

I restored it today is it was deleted without a full discussion. I support it being there as it was a change in the name as well as a radical change in the design for packaging. The article itself is Dragon Quest IV: Chapters of the Chosen, so that box art should be here. The original is also useful because it shows that this game did change from the old style localized as Dragon Warrior IV. Please do not delete until a decision as to which one or both should stay is made. Sgetz (talk) 14:59, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

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Requested move 9 July 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. -- Tavix ^(talk) 21:33, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

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Dragon Quest IV: Chapters of the Chosen → Dragon Quest IV – The Japanese and Western subtitles are different. 2A02:C7D:564B:D300:3C1A:53BD:793E:CDDC (talk) 11:38, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Please note that the nonimator is blocked for block evasion and a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive 115#Dragon Quest subtitles in the page name had a consensus to use subtitles.--174.91.187.80 (talk) 03:14, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

• Support move. (1) There was no such "consensus" at that link, 174.91. (2) I'm uncomfortable with using a press release to indicate that DQ4 is known as well both without its Roman numeral and with a subtitle than it is otherwise. The majority of sources in the article refer to the game as just "Dragon Quest IV" and that how it is known best. (3) When I run both names past the naming criteria (article titles policy) and ask which is more recognizable (the name most people will call it), natural (reflecting what it's usually called), precise (unambiguously identified), and concise (not longer than necessary to identify), I find "Dragon Quest IV" to be the clear favorite. We would need a whole lot more sources that use the subtitle without the Roman numeral to prove that it is known as well in those conditions as without, if we want to warrant the longer title vis-à-vis the naming criteria. czar 21:01, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.