Talk:Dreaming of You (Selena song)/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: IndianBio (talk · contribs) 07:10, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Just a friendly reminder IndianBio that you opened this review two and a half weeks ago.  — Calvin999 17:29, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Starting review... will note down points as I go. —Indian:BIO ^{[ ChitChat ]} 04:28, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Lead section

• The infobox needs the {{flat list}} additions for B-side, formats, writers and producers.

• Done for format and writer. It is only needed for additional content after the primary one has been used in the infobox. jona^(talk) 21:25, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

• The best-selling single of her musical career, --> We can establish it in the later section of the lead, not here.

• Done. jona^(talk) 21:25, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

• Golde, who believed the track had potential, acquainted the song to Selena for her to record --> Golde believed that the track had potential, and brought it to Selena who recorded it for Dreaming of You.

• Done. jona^(talk) 21:25, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

• The singer's record-producer brother A.B. Quintanilla III didn't like the track, he later said in a 2002 interview that he felt he was "more judgmental" towards his first impression of the demonstration recording. --> The singer's record producer and brother, A.B. Quintanilla, did not like the track; he later said in a 2002 interview that he was "more judgmental" to the first demo of the track.

• Done. jona^(talk) 21:25, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

• and some remarked on a similarity to songs recorded by Madonna and Paula Abdul --> compared it to songs by Madonna and Paula Abdul

• Done. jona^(talk) 21:25, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

• According to OC Weekly, BuzzFeed, Neon Tommy, and Latina magazine, "Dreaming of You" was one of the best songs recorded by Selena in her musical career. --> You don't need to mention them explicitly if you have mentioned in the article body

• Not done, the article is about "Dreaming of You" and its importance/impact. jona^(talk) 21:25, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Nope, you are using the pretext of WP:LEAD to list items which are grossly WP:UNDUE for the lead. It should be a summary, not intricate details. —Indian:BIO ^{[ ChitChat ]} 01:45, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

• The Los Angeles Times recognized it as one of the top 10 singles of 1995. The recording was also included in Bruce Pollock's book of The 7500 Most Important Songs for the Rock and Roll Era --> These are simply not needed, we get it that it was a critical success, let the article explain them better, not the lead

• Not done, per WP:LEAD. As a rule of thumb, I incorporate a little bit from every section in the article in the lead. jona^(talk) 21:25, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

WP:LEAD does not state to mention content from each section explicity. Please read the following: "The lead serves as an introduction to the article and a summary of its most important aspects. It is not a news-style lede. The lead should be able to stand alone as a concise overview. It should define the topic, establish context, explain why the topic is notable, and summarize the most important points, including any prominent controversies". Your continuous inclusion of minute details and sales and streaming etc is why the article review is stuck at the lead itself. —Indian:BIO ^{[ ChitChat ]} 01:45, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

• It's a rule of thumb to incorporate a little of each section used in the article body. jona^(talk) 16:28, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

• The music video line does not go here, it should be merged with the promotional details in lead

• What promotional details? The song and the music video was released posthumously. jona^(talk) 21:25, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

• Talking about the US Hot 100 peak is fine since it is the primary chart, but going into so much detail is WP:UNDUE. You can simply that the song reached the top-20/top-30 in X, Y, Z countries

• Done. jona^(talk) 21:25, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

• "Dreaming of You" became one of Selena's most popular and recognizable recordings and has since been covered by various artists. --> Exact reason why I am saying that you are going overboard. See bullet point #2

• Not done, the article is about the song and its importance/impact. jona^(talk) 21:25, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

See my response and please understand wP:LEAD. —Indian:BIO ^{[ ChitChat ]} 01:45, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

So many issues in the lead itself, will the article be worth it? —Indian:BIO ^{[ ChitChat ]} 09:11, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

• The fact that you said "will the article be worth it?" seems to say that you can care less about this article. So why have your reviewed it? I suggest you withdraw as reviewer and let someone else who is non-bias to the topic at hand. Best, jona^(talk) 16:28, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Nope. I will continue reviewing this article but the fact that you are not paying attention to valid points being mentioned is the reason this will probably eventually fail. —Indian:BIO ^{[ ChitChat ]} 17:42, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

AJona1992 I'm back now and want to continue the review. But I want to ask, have you understood the point that I'm highlighting regarding the lead? I believe another user replied the same in the GAN talk page too. You can include points from every section of the article body, however you have to summarize it instead of giving it in detailed manner which is the case here. If you want I can rewrite the lead for you and show you. —Indian:BIO ^{[ ChitChat ]} 08:24, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Yes another friend of yours have replied. But I am not against you at all, I just didn't like the comment "is it worth it" that really bothered me. But yes, can you please continue the review and I will fix the lead according to your comments that you left on concerns of due weight. Thanks, jona^(talk) 15:56, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

... Continuing

Background

• She was asked to make three demonstration recordings --> She was asked to make three demos..
• that all achieved unprecedented milestones --> You are not mentioned what milestones, so no point being weasely. Make it simple as "that all achieved commercial success"
• Koppelman considered that Selena had reached her peak in the Spanish market, and he began preparations for a crossover album --> Koppelman believed that Selena had peaked in the Spanish music market, and began preparations for a crossover album

Recording

• He was unable to produce the crossover album since he was working on Selena's follow-up Spanish-language recording to Amor Prohibido (1994), slanted to be released several months after her English-language attempt --> Please rewrite, makes no sense with so many usages of "he" as well as tense problems.
• The following two sentences also have "choose" as consecutive usages
• From the line "Originally the song.." introduce a new break
• again, remove instances of demonstration recording with the word "demo"
• he informed her that he did not like the track.[11] Selena told him that she was going to record the song because she favored its lyrical content and message. --> This gets a little confusing, who is telling whom, what?
• He then called the recording "one of, if not, best song off the album." --> Remove, he is a record producer and Selena's brother. His judgement of the song holds no candle here
• Her father asked her to "just try" and sing the song --> Her father asked her to "just try" and sing...
• He was unable to attend after Quintanilla, Jr. wanted him to work with a band he was interested in managing --> He was unable to attend since Quintanilla, Jr. wanted him to work with a band he was interested in managing
• Reference no. 11 i used multiple times consecutively. Please read WP:OVERCITE and use it just once at the end of the sequence of sentences
• From the sentence On 31 March, again break into new para.
• "Dreaming of You" was released as the lead single for the 1995 album --> "Dreaming of You" was released posthumously as the third single for the album......" Please correct the error, DOY was not the lead single release. I know enough of Selena to remember that ICFIL and TST were the first releases

Composition

• Pop ballad is NOT a genre of any song. Its a type of music. Please remove the information from infobox
• It is played in the key of A minor at a moderate 84 beats per minute, while the guitar is played in the key of G --> "It is played in the key of A minor with a moderate tempo of 84 beats per minute." There is no mention of the guitar's key in the sheet music
• Eb3 to Eb5 --> E♭₃ to E♭₅
• Kathleen Tracy wrote in her biography book of Jennifer Lopez, who portrayed Selena in the biopic film in 1997, that the track is a "hit ballad" --> The author does not seem to have any credibility. Just because she wrote a J.Lo bio does not make her reliable
• proved that she could handle pop songs as well as anyone --> proved that [Selena] could handle pop songs as well as anyone
• tried to dilute her "ethnic" sound a bit too much so as to not alienate the mainstream audience --> tried to dilute her 'ethnic' sound a bit too much so as to not alienate the mainstream audience – please do not use double quotes inside quotations
• and that it --> and added that it
• John Lannert, a Latin music contributor for Billboard magazine, wrote in the Dreaming of You booklet that Selena "wrapped her creamy seductive mezzo sound around slow confessionals such as "I Could Fall in Love", "Missing My Baby", and the title track."[ --> How is it related to the composition? This is a critical review of the piece
• BuzzFeed contributor Brian Galindo, called the song an "ethereal ballad" --> Unreliable source for music analysis
• with an emotionally vulnerable narrator who wants true love but finds it unattainable --> talking about an emotionally vulnerable narrator who wants true love but finds it unattainable
• Again ref 26, 18 etc, all using WP:OVERCITE
• This whole part starting from "Selena sings that she is up at night... " and referenced to "Coates 2005, p. 64" is a complete WP:PLAGIARISM. It adds the whole content ad verbatim from the book. You either rephrase it completely or remove it
• Deborah Walker of the Sun Sentinel called the Spanish-language verse as "gentle nothings over her own vocals" and "such musings appear to have come from the heart." --> Again, critical reception
• J. D. Considine of The Baltimore Sun called the lyrics "a delightfully literal approach to the phrase "sleeping together" as Selena's protagonist visits her love only in her dreams" and it emulates an "endearingly innocent expression of love and longing."[28] Flick said of the ending that it "blissfully fades" and that "all one can do is wonder what the future might have held if things were different." --> Same as above

Ok, I'm done here. I'm failing this article as a GA nomination. There is a bigger, most unusual problem in this piece if a reviewer has to point out each and every line of the article's sections as having some problem or the other. The language is extremely poor and there are problems with formatting, copied content as well as source reliability. I strongly suggest that it goes through the WP:GOCE and WP:PR before it returns here. Sorry to see that you waited so long only to have this being failed. But problems are problems, and I cannot ignore it just to pass an article. You are free to contest this decision at WP:GAR if you feel. —Indian:BIO ^{[ ChitChat ]} 05:25, 25 July 2015 (UTC)