Talk:Duel of the Fates

This song is very similar to Mozart's Symphony #5 in C Minor, Op. 67, "Fate" - Mvt. #1. It's darker, granted, but still has a similar feel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.192.86.170 (talk) 16:13, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

As much as I love the song, certainly hosting a (decently) high quality ogg of the whole song must be a violation of copyright and Wikipedia policy. TheDapperDan 21:59, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Not if it's restricted to a certain fraction of the playtime. Elle _{vécut heureuse} ^{à jamais} (Be eudaimonic!) 02:10, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I changed it back to the 30 sample that was here before. Hosting whole song is definately looking for a law suit. Tertiary7 06:29, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Recordings

I was curious, most people arn't aware that there are actually quite a few recorded variations of the Duel of the Fates. I was going to edit the article to include my information but I figure it would get deleted so I've decided simply to state it here.

Currently there are these known recordings of Duel of the Fates for the Episode I film, as written by John Williams and Performed by the LSO:

1. Film Version (Unused)
2. Film Version Alternate (Usued)
3. Film Version Alternate 2 (Unused)
4. The Great Duel (Unused)
5. Album
6. Choirless

The proof I have of these are the recordings themselvs.

The Film Version (Unused) was also meant to be used in a different End Credits Suite which was unused. The primary difference is orchestrations and percussion are very different.

The Used film version can be heard on the UE. We know its different becuase if you listen, the horns play a different line under the choir.

The Film Version alternate 2 is another one that has vastly different orchestratsion. It's very much like the version used in Episode II but is not the same recording.

The Great Duel is a use of the DOTF theme and material and is worthy of mention. It is unused in the film, but can be heard in the DVD Featuretts.

The Album version is a known recording.

The Choirless version is known because there has been material comming from video games that is DOTF without choir. They usually record these things seperately.

I find listing the SW video game theme examples to be innapropriate and non-signifigant. Perhaps they should be seperated into a new paragraph, to distinguish them as being seperate REuses in non-canon.

Since no complete recording schedule is known, the proof I have lay in the recordings that can be heard in varying video games Released by Lucas Art around the time of Episode I and prior to Episode II. The only way these recordings could have possibly been made is if John Williams recorded them.

We also know from interviews and information from the composers and arrangers who worked on the games that they had access to the original masters--which explains why so many alternate and unused cues can be heard in the video games.

I just wanted to put this out there becuase it's a little known fact that I beileve is worth mentioning.

Also, Episode II uses a new recording but tracked Episode I material to end it. Episode III uses the Choirless version recorded in the Episode I recording sessions but they recorded a new vocals Slate number 6m5 (If you listen, the vocals are distinctively different).--70.119.237.64 09:33, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Can you provide any proof about these recordings? I have heard the Concert-Suite-type version, and I can also verify that the Album version is actually a construction as Williams would edit together several different takes. The album version uses pieces from all recordings, as well as one or two loops. The Great Duel does not count as part of the concert suite and is the ONLY ONE meant to be used in the film (where the last instance of Duel of the Fates is in the film, except for the End Credits). In total, only 3 versions of the concert suite can be verified from various places - the percussiver version found in the video games, the take that is used primarily for the Album version and the choirless version. ggctuk (2005) (talk) 20:11, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Deletion

I deleted the material that claimed to provide a "translation" of a phrase of the lyrics, because it made no sense as Sanskrit (or any other language I know). The lyrics appear to have been considerably distorted in the process of composition; the only word that is really recognizable is yoodhah (= yuddha) "fight". RandomCritic 01:21, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Similarity to other classical compositions

This song is strikingly similar to Richard Wagner's Excalibur theme, O Fortuna. Star Wars is essentially about a group of space Fascists who plot and succeed in gaining power by overthrowing the established Republic. I find it very interesting the Star Wars movies have so many Nazi-like themes and the music is so similar in rhythm to many of Wagner's works. Hitler himself once stated "In order to understand the Nazi Party, you must understand Wagner." Coincidence? --Nazrac 07:30, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I think this is definitely a coincidence. There are a number of songs that you could establish as being similar to O Fortuna, for example O Verona or One Winged Angel. I think these all fall into a certain kind of "Epic" song genera. As for Star Wars being essentially about Fascists gaining power... I am sorry, but what has the Empire done to make it seem fascist as opposed to, say, another form of dictatorship? Jaimeastorga2000 21:01, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

By the power of Godwin's Law, you lose! --148.240.253.118 16:47, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Also by the power of the fact that "O Fortuna" is not by Wagner. It's by Carl Orff, from Carmina Burana. Lbark 17:30, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone else feel like this piece rips off the third movement to Dvorak's ninth symphony? 64.13.19.138 (talk) 08:38, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I looked up this article just to see if it had any reference to that. They're positively similar :)

Me too

I've just watched the 1990 movie Presumed Innocent, and I was surprised to notice the main theme from that movie's soundtrack – also composed by John Williams – clearly contains the very characteristic theme from Duel of the Fates. It seems that Williams liked that theme enough to bring it back a decade later for Episode I. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zaister (talk • contribs) 20:47, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

"Evil Sith"

what happened to wikipedia's neutral point of view?

Well played, sir. Well played. Hkobb7 (talk) 22:35, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Removal of uncited appearances of Duel of the Fates

In order for any material to be included here (or anywhere else on the project), those adding content must include valid references in reliable secondary sources. There are none in the content that has recently been disputed. (There also aren't any references for the litany of video games in which the song appears; those ought to be removed as well.) Adding information with no sources hurts the credibility and reliability of the project, and so content about Duel of the Fates that lacks these vital sources will be removed. JDoorjam JDiscourse 21:18, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Then why did you remove the only thing in the article that cited a reference?Scrmbgz (talk) 12:31, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

If you're referring to the reference to Star Wars Insider, I didn't remove it; I just incorporated it into the first paragraph. JDoorjam JDiscourse 21:24, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I believe Scrmbgz was referring to a referenced recording in the now obliterated 'in other media' section. FortunateTheognis (talk) 01:25, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

I fail to understand why removal of cited references hurts the integrity of this article. I would think the entire purpose of the 'in other media' section is to show how popular the piece is, but how often its used outside of the star wars universe... providing context. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Scrmbgz (talk • contribs) 12:00, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I've only removed uncited sources. Unfortunately, sections like these become catch-alls for uncited and not-terribly-relevant factoids -- to avoid that, it's best to monitor things before they get out of hand, and maintain a high standard. The song is used in the Star Wars Universe and to parody Star Wars; those uses have been cited and retained. What citations are you referring to that I've removed, bearing in mind that references to other Wikipedia articles are invalid? JDoorjam JDiscourse 01:55, 5 December 2008 (UTC)